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Old denford machine

Discussion in 'Concepts and Ideas' started by Tourniquet63, Feb 16, 2023.

  1. Tourniquet63

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    Hi everyone,

    I have an old Denford compact 1000 that I would like to get running again. I don't think there are any problems with the machine but I do need a driver board and control.

    I was thinking of using a gecko g540 ( mostly because that is what I have access to) and run it on mach 4. I imagine this is relatively easy compared to what you guys normally do seeing as the hardware is already done.

    Just wanted to throw this out there in case anyone has some experience with them.
     
  2. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    yep, the Gecko and Mach are propbably the right thing for that machine
     
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  3. Tourniquet63

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    The part I am unsure about is using a VFD. Right now there is a porter cable router in the machine - so I suppose I could just use a switch and manually turn it on every time. Do people hook up routers to VFD's and then to the control boards?
     
  4. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Not routers - the VFD converts your single phase mains to three phase and controls the speed of a three phase spindle by varying the frequency of the output. If you want to use a VFD you need the correct spindle to go with it.

    Alex.
     
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  5. Tourniquet63

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    Makes sense. I am not super familiar with the geckodrive board - but is there a logic port for the spindle? Maybe drive it by relay?
     
  6. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    Probably need to tap off the parallel out from the host PC. It might be able to ModBus over a network port, I'm not sure, I haven't really looked into Mach since I use LinuxCNC.
     
  7. Tourniquet63

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    That is another concern. I'd like to run the machine off of a modern laptop with a USB connection. But I've heard a lot of technical problems come up when converting from USB to parallel.
     
  8. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    Laptops often struggle with real time processing and IO due to battery management issues. Better to use a dedicated small-form-factor desktop PC permanently mounted to a monitor stand. The G540 is also a parallel device, not a USB one, last I checked (admittedly, a couple years ago now)
     
  9. Tourniquet63

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    I see. I suppose a purpose-built machine would be easy to find a parallel port card or maybe even find a motherboard that has one on it.
     
  10. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    Personally I put Mesa cards in eBay-refurb Dell Optiplex boxes you can get for ~$60 or so. Mesa stuff is expensive though, and I don't know how well it plays with Mach. A regular cheap parallel card (eg. StarTech) might work just fine.

    Both the machines and the electronics are a bit of a learning process once you start evolving away from small extrusion grbl machines.
     
  11. Tourniquet63

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    Ok, good to know. I will look into this route.
     
  12. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    also look at Acorn, one of the nicest GUI's I have seen
     
  13. Tourniquet63

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    Nice,

    Is acorn just the software? Or do you have to use their board with it?
    I'm trying to rebuild this machine for my school and ordering parts is typically a major bottleneck. The only supplier that has these types of parts that I have access to is digikey. They do carry the gecko drive boards - which is why I think I will have to use them.

    The only other options I can find on there are a CNC control board from adafruit, and there is a company called trinamic that seems to have a lot of heavy duty stepper motor drives but seems to be more geared towards industrial.
     
  14. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    acorn is an integrated software and hardware solution
    mach3/4 can drive existing drivers via one of the compatible usb interfaces.
    some of the processors grblHAL supports can run a lathe very well, but you would have to build your own or maybe buy one of the Barton Dring packages or similar.
    There must by now be a usb-> Gecko540 solution that removes the need for a parallel port.
    for that matter a grblHAL processor could be that interface, but you need to be aware of the electronic pitfalls (parallel ports were 5v TTL, pretty much all the grblHAL supported processors are 3.3v)
     
  15. Tourniquet63

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    I can get my hands on an older dell type box that is still usable and has a parallel port - so the geckodrive is probably fine. And really my only option is I mentioned only being able to order from digikey.

    The second project is to get the sherline CNC lathe working as well - that will require some more research.
     
  16. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Have you done any research on the UC100?
     
  17. Tourniquet63

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    No I think I stumbled across it before, it seems like there are a few solutions / boards out there.

    Since I am somewhat tied to the geckodrive parallel driver I may have to look into other parallel port control softwares.
     
  18. Tourniquet63

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    David you may be on to something.

    After the price of Mach 4 and the USB to parallel converter, I think it's about a wash.
    If I were to spend the money on the acorn setup that would get me through the control software and then I could still order individual gecko stepper motor drivers - through my digikey supplier.

    If I use the acorn CNC board, and individual gecko motor drivers. I would need to also buy a separate power supply for the motor drivers correct?
     
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  19. Tourniquet63

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    More I think about it, the acorn may be the way to go. It does look like the software interface is nice and I like that the board comes with so many relays and other things to control, vacuums, etc. And after accounting for the parallel to usb converter and the price of the software, I think they're about the same. I haven't really read into the pro version but I would be teaching high school students the basics on this machine, so I imagine we wouldn't need it at least for a while.

    I think my stepper motors are rated at 2.1 amps so I think I would get this driver for each stepper.

    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/mean-well-usa-inc/NDR-120-48/7705221
     
  20. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Are they Bipolar? I haven't followed this thread, but have you looked at the BlackBox? docs:blackbox-x32:start [OpenBuilds Documentation] - 2.1 is small enough for it to power with ease
     
  21. Tourniquet63

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    No, I haven't. But I just did and it looks perfect for my small CNC retrofit.

    I'm trying to resurrect this old CNC for my classroom. There were a few problems getting it started and I don't have the software keys for the original denford software. After speaking with denford, it would be around 7 or 800 bucks to get the control software and their design software that will allow an STL to be input. The ordering system is so backwards at my school that I couldn't convince the board that this was a small company in the UK that made this specific machine and this was the only software provider, so I have figured out that it will be cheaper probably to retrofit it.

    I knew I would come out of pocket for some of the cost because the only real supplier that I have the ability to order from is digi key. That's why I started to go down the gecko drive route because they will sell them.

    But if I only have to cough up 220 bucks to get this thing running that would be great.

    It even looks like they use a mean well power supply, which I think I could find on Digikey.

    Thanks for the tip!

    How is the open builds software?
     
  22. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Checkout the Software section of the same docs.openbuilds.com
    Direct link: docs:software:overview [OpenBuilds Documentation] (see menu on the left of the docs for more info below the summary too)
     
  23. Tourniquet63

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    Thanks Peter,

    I just ordered the black box and the touch probe. I am sure I will be back with questions.
     

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