Precisely, though we are talking about Harbor Freight after all. I mean I have bought some tools from there myself and the power tools *might* last you long enough for that but I wouldn't bet my house on it.

 

Neil with the frog ox is using a hf router, I wonder why he didn't feel the need to spend more on a spindle?

 

Thing is it will run for that length of time even as a hobby machine. Read most routers and they will tell you they are not for continuous use and some even tell you they need rest periods in between. A Bosch will be a good choice but bear in mind it will be a hundred times louder than a spindle and the spindle will actually have more power. I have been in many hobby shops and professional shops and even the hobbyist will admit they really wish they had saved just a tad more money and went with a spindle. Have fun with it but do be aware of what the limitations are.

Oh, anyone thinking of using a Dremel "rotary tool" for the job please think again as they don't stand up for very long even for the name brand doing this for 1-2, or more, hours each run. The HF one just burns up and seizes up on you mid job (I know this first hand).

Don't get me wrong I am not telling anyone what to do, or buy, just trying to give out some friendly advise before anyone ends up unhappy, or worse has a fire.

I am amazed at all CNC equipment myself.

 

Question for you directly...Are you connected with the Zeus? I ask because you seem to be defending it and trying to hawk it and not someone who is just interested in it.

 

Well, a nice 600-800 watt spindle is what is a good starting point and nothing less than 500 watt (depending on the hardness of the wood you might can squeak by with 400 watts but I would say to go for the 600-800 watt). More than 1kw is for metals. Now I need a 1.8kw for the stuff I want to do but the spindle and the controller is pretty expensive and add water cooling and OUCH! a 500 watt/600 watt can be had pretty reasonably.

Lets, see the Bosch router a lot of people use is about 99-129 dollars and has absolutely no control for speed. Pretty much it is just turn on and away it goes but a spindle allows the gcode to control its RPMs for even finer control and another reason I always suggest a spindle. Most of the Chinese 800 watt spindles seem to have very low run out and use very good bearings but the best bearings seem to be German made and OMG, those are about 100-200 dollars more so I don't really suggest those for a tight budget but is always there if you ever need more precision and a tad more quality.

 

No I'm not connect to zeus, spark-concepts. I just think for the money the kit is a good deal.
that is why I bought one from them.
I do understand that the HF router isn't a spindle, but @20.00 with a coupon it's hard to beat.
Bob

 

there is a way to control the speed on a universal motor (trim router)
http://www.vhipe.com/product-private/SuperPID.htm
plenty of people use these to regulate the speed....

 

Fair enough. I am just not one for a HF power tool as I never ever had any luck with them for more than a few minutes. If/when that breaks on you look at a Porter or a Bosch router or a 600-800 watt spindle.

 

I know of such devices which just sends out a PWM signal which is a square wave to a device expecting a sine wave (like using a solar panel dc-ac converter of old/cheap and one of a pure sine wave and using motors on it). Not for me and why add complexity, more cost, and something else that could break?

One thing about a spindle is that I have even seen people build their own out of RC Helicopter motors and every spindle I have seen has been a brushless DC motor which could care less if it sees a square PWM wave or a sine wave.

I see that price and I immediately add 90+155 and for just 75-125 more I can have an 800watt to 1 kilowatt spindle and controller.

For anyone not understanding about the PWM/Square wave to an AC motor I mentioned above it may work and may not and if it does the motor will lose power and it gets much hotter much faster. People ran into this with corded drills and refrigerators running off of those old ac converters when people were going solar/wind. It actually burnt up many a refrigerator motor until the pure sine wave inverters were made. Basically, AC motors want a sine wave for input to function best, or at all, and shoving a square wave (PWM) signal at one is not something to do and why DC motors are used as spindles since they could care less.

EDIT: My last word on the subject:

Reduced router noise - Because it is going slower.
Longer bearing Life - Only because you are going slower.
Cool Running - The motor or this controller? If the motor I call B/S.
Increased cutting power - B/S plain and simple.
Precise speed control - Really? I doubt that.

Basically that sounds like marketing gibberish with cool buzz words without any facts backing them up.

 

sgspenceley, and for people going the router option I found this I think you will like. It is an old video but explains a lot of stuff.

 

Dang, hardwired? Well, that locks you in to that make and model of a router forever and if you change you have to buy a new controller? No thanks.

 

Look into the Super PID speed controller for routers. http://www.vhipe.com/product-private/SuperPID.htm Pretty good setup. Uses a optical sensor to manage speed control down to 5000 rpm I believe. Works with almost all routers. I use a Porter Cable 7518 with built in speed control and it sucks, terrible control stability. I also have the Delwat 611 variable on the small machine and it does a decent job at maintaining. If I don't end up upgrading to a 2-3KW water cooled spindle i'll probably get one to control the PC, I do a bit of cutting on aluminum and work like a lower speed to work with. Also just my honest opinion, spend just slightly more and get a better router to start with, I bought the DWP611 motor only off amazon for I think $70.00 with free shipping. Better quality, variable speed, and better choice for collets down the road... just my 2 cents..

Btw. I am not affiliated with the Super PID, just like the product as a addon for us router users..

Edit: I need to read the thread better. I see that the Super PID was brought up already. Lol
Anyway I know a bunch of people on Joe's CNC forum that run them and love'm, especially being able to control the rpm from Mach 3..

 

I would think that with them being hardwired in to your exact make and model of router that would be a bad idea. Don't they have a general use one? I bet they don't due several factors and one being the square wave to a brushed AC motor system as some routers can't handle that like a lot of hand drills. *shrug*

edit: I do 6061 work but I have heard of needs for around 300-500rpm on a CNC but for what I never found out though I am still interested in finding out.

 

I'm not to sure why they ask for router makes and models, unless it just to send installation instructions for that brand. Like for my PC67518 the variable speed control has to be bypassed in order to install the PID. A brushed AC router is a brushed AC router, wouldn't think brand would make a difference.

I cut 6061 and do it @ 16000rpm, but I use a "O" flute aluminum bit from Toolstoday. They're designed to cut at those speeds. Really have to use a feed and speed calculator to get it right. My biggest mistake is feeding to slow, aluminum melts then pop there goes the bit... Did find out through that experience that Liquid Plumber drain opener (Sodium Hydroxide) dissolves the aluminum off carbide bits. Saved me 2 - $23.00 4 flute bits

Check out this video, he's using a 2 flute upcut HSS bit running at I think 100IPM @ 20k rpm.

 

Sorry for taking your discussion off course !! Didn't realize it till now... Now back to our regularly scheduled build !!

Btw.. IMHO DWP611 is a good low cost router for a low use application, better quality than a Harbor Fright model. Plus it's pretty darn quiet.

 

Liquid Plumber, really? WOW, I like that idea. I have no idea about why they want to know either because, just as you said, an AC motor on a router should be the same on everything but I can attest it isn't that simple as many people will tell you with burnt up motors on their washing machines, refrigerators, air conditioners, and corded drills when they tried using those old square wave power inverters. Some do not mind but some will work very sub par while others just burn up and seize up on you. :/

Yep, I agree with Hytech and sorry about going off on a tangent there but it might help someone to choose wisely (at least I hope it helps someone).

 

Yes, I am building a new 3d printer in Solidworks and I got it all worked out until I counted the wheels and had a heart attack. Would have been darn smooth, quiet, and probably as fast as the Ultimaker 2 (maybe even faster) but 31 wheels (I might could get that down to 30) is insane at 4 dollars a pop. So, 2 weeks down the toilet.

As far as that spindle goes I have never heard a bad word about a Kress but they aren't cheap over here in the states.

 

lol don't get me started on wheels, my new upgrade build has 48.... Definitely the overkill Ox !!

I've heard alot of good things about kress too!!

 

Thank you as that made me feel better...a little. LOL

Seriously, the cost of the wheels, and wheel kits, is hideous and I praise V-Slot all over the place except for their pricing of the wheels, and kits. Fact is a lot of people are not even considering V-Slot due to their hideous pricing and instead, and I quote a couple of people I have talked to about this, "why spend so much for all of that when I can buy some linear rail that has the shuttle, bearings, etc... all ready to go and costs around the same?" I can only answer that with a "possibly noise level" but I am not even sure that is true.

 

Good choices, those parts will serve you well. Mach 3 works great, alot of good features like auto square for squaring your gantry... And any Vectric software is good stuff !!

 

Great choices only for me I am anti Mach3 because it wants that which I refuse to give it (an old 32 bit machine running XP and has a LPT port) but I understand Mach4 has most of the shortcomings (I consider what it wants for antiquated machines to be a shortcoming now) of Mach3 eliminated.

If you have the equipment Mach3 wants all of those choices you will be happy with.

For me I will be running a smoothieboard with some TB drivers.

 

? I'm confused, you don't need an antique PC to run Mach 3. I've been running on 2- 64bit Windows 7 machines using the ethernet port... LPT went the way of the dinosaurs... Heck you can even run off the USB port using a smoothstepper BoB, I use the ethernet version because I didn't want my PC near the machine or electronics....