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No idea what I'm doing

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Michael D Lackey, Aug 9, 2021.

  1. Michael D Lackey

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    Hey guys, I've had my lead 1010 with the black box for less than a year. I have no clue how any of it works really. I use the easel software to generate the g code then export it to the openbuilds control. Lately it's been stopping at random points, never the same point in the same program, saying the numerical values don't exist.

    I tried to connect the machine directly to the easel software and now it won't do anything. I've attached what it says now when I try to use the openbuilds control.

    I've Uninstalled the software, I've changed usb ports. I'm to my wits end. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Michael D Lackey

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    Well, the files are too big. The first one said:
    Error-2 Numeric value format is not valid or missing an expected value [G1.00482 Y0.30780 F30.0]

    Second one said:
    Error- no supported firmware detected. Closing port com3
    Detecting firmware: method 1 (autoreset)
    Detecting firmware method 2 (Ctrl+X)
    Detecting firmware method 3 (others that are not supported)
    Port info: Port closed
     
  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Negative... Grbl complains the data it received is corrupted


    Caused by EMI: docs:blackbox:faq-emi [OpenBuilds Documentation]

    Your router wiring is probably too close to low voltage signal wiring, causing EMI ingress, that corrupts the serial data stream. The FAQ above covers it in depth.

    Corrupted serial stream also causes connection drops


    Could indicate wiring shorts: See docs:blackbox:faq-usb-connection-failed [OpenBuilds Documentation]
     
  4. Torin3

    Torin3 Well-Known
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    Do you have ferrite cores or shielding in place?
     
  5. Michael D Lackey

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    No idea what that is so I'm guessing no. I hooked everything up by the video, took me a week.
     
  6. Torin3

    Torin3 Well-Known
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  7. Michael D Lackey

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  8. DaveySLP

    DaveySLP New
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    Hi, I had exactly the same problem, it turned out that two machines I was running side by side while running my work bee were causing electromagnetic interference and the port was closing in exactly the same way yours did. Same as you, it would stop at random places - really annoyed me to as I couldn't figure out what was going on! So try not running anything but the machine itself. This solved my issues...
     
  9. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    To help isolate the problem starting simple is the best approach. Does it jog manually without a spindle with no issues? Next try doing an air cut (no spindle) on one of the projects you have had issues with. Does it complete the project without issue?
     
  10. Michael D Lackey

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    Only thing I have is my lead 1010 & the laptop connected to it.
     
  11. Michael D Lackey

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    If it connects it jogs just fine. It will simulate the whole program no problem. I tried a dry run without spindle on & it stopped as soon as I clicked the run button
     
  12. Torin3

    Torin3 Well-Known
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    Yes, on the USB cable. If that doesn't work, you can try using shielded power cables as well. Do you have a VFD powering a spindle? That can also cause more interference. If your USB cable is running alongside your power cables, see if you can route it so it doesn't run parallel as much as possible.

    These things may not resolve it entirely, but if you notice an improvement, that will let you know you are going in the right direction.
     
  13. Michael D Lackey

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    The spindle is a Bosch colt. Not sure what a vfd
     
  14. Torin3

    Torin3 Well-Known
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    VFD = Variable Frequency Drive. If you didn't see that in your setup instructions, you don't have it. We can rule that out as a source of interference.
     
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  15. Michael D Lackey

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    It worked fine the first few months. The only problems were on my end not know what tool did what, but never crashing.
     
  16. Michael D Lackey

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    Okay, I bought some of these ferrite things and put about 15 on every cable I could find. Still nothing. This is really starting to irritate me. I don't like paying thousands of dollars for something that doesn't work.
     
  17. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    See the above link. Lots of other things to try other than Ferrites. Ferrites can suppress noise, but its much better to eliminate the source of the EMI instead.

    Is the Router power cable well clear (using a swing arm) of the low voltage cabling? (link to swing arm is in the FAQ page linked above)

    Is the router EARTHED (See Grounding router spindle? for example) - otherwise consider the Dewalt 611 - much less EMI than the Bosch (Differs from our standard setup so may explain your issues right off the bat)

    Are you using a dust extraction method? - vacuum hose EARTHED?

    Work the FAQ page check list step by step from the top. EMI is just electrical interference. Find the source, address it, problem goes away

    Climate changes - dryer weather increases static build up and EMI

    As for software: Read docs:software:overview [OpenBuilds Documentation]
    And also see docs:blackbox:hello-world [OpenBuilds Documentation]
     
  18. Michael D Lackey

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    Okay, went and spent more money on a DeWalt 611 only for it to not work. I have went through the check list the best I know how and nothing. I have Ferrites on every cable sometimes 2 per cable... nothing. It feels like it's time for me to realize I bought a piece of crap and move on. Nothing I do helps, nothing I try works. I have a $2500 paper weight. If anyone wants to buy it from me let me know.
     
  19. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    I suspect the problem may be code as well, especially if grbl's just complaining, not outright erroring.

    What's the proper formatting of a feed line of G-code? There's a value missing there, for sure. You'll see it immediately once you look it up.

    Not trying to be snide here or make you feel bad, but I think the problem is at least partially:

    If you don't know how it works and you didn't spend a few weeks learning about CNC and how grbl works, why spend thousands of dollars? CNC is not a consumer-friendly, plug'n'play discipline. I know it's often advertised that way by unscrupulous vendors, but it really takes a lot of expertise to get good at it, and a fair amount of knowledge just to be confident around the basics. Think of it like cars in the 1910s, or firearms in the 1860s; commercial support available, but not for the feint of heart.

    I think you need to stop trying to make the machine do anything until you know what you're doing and more importantly why you're doing it, and start reading.

    The grbl wiki is probably the best place to start. Google terms and phrases you're unfamiliar with as you go. Yes, it may take weeks, or even months, to get through to the point you start really understanding it. They neglect to mention that little bit on the Facebook ads, I know. You'll need some basic electronics 101 as well- how a capacitor works, signal and noise, what Arduino is, that kind of thing. Lots of answers are available on the CNCZone and LinuxCNC forums- many of those answers won't help directly with grbl with its limited functionality, but they'll explain what you're reading and why on the grbl wiki, as well as expanding your horizons in general. So don't worry too much about Google results being irrelevant- almost nothing I've ever learned about CNC has been irrelevant, it's just taken different amounts of time to roll pieces of knowledge into my practice.

    This is an activity with a very heavy emphasis on self-directed learning and a ton of patience. There are many local classifieds with barely-used machines that work perfectly well but their owners thought they were in for a very different experience- more like drones, or 3D printers, where most of the heavy lifting is already done. Unfortunately subtractive machining can never really work that way due to the sheer variability- you don't even get that experience if you spend high-six, even seven figures on a machine, never mind a couple thousand bucks.
     
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  20. Michael D Lackey

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    I admit part of the problem is with me, that's why I came here to get help. I don't know what GRBL is I don't know what the proper Gcode language, I admitted that. When I use Easel to generate a Gcode (because I don't know how to write it) and send it to my CNC it should understand the code being sent. It shows the proper visual on the 3D preview, so it knows the code. If the machine decides to connect to the port and try to run the program, I have had it stop in multiple places saying somethings wrong. If line 1 was wrong when I started line 1 should be wrong the second time I run it instead of running past line 1 and telling me line 10 is wrong.

    These machines are advertised as plug n play, even in not so many words here on the Openbuilds site.

    When I first started with the 1010 it performed perfectly. I create Gcode on Easel, send it to openbuilds control and boom, parts were made. Now, I can't even connect the machine to control most times.
     
  21. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    Gotcha. Then the problem probably isn't code, and electromagnetic noise can be a nightmare to chase down. First thing I'd do would be to eliminate all possible sources of noise- keep the spindle off, of course, but also go into grbl settings and turn off limits. If the filters in the switches aren't working, that might be the problem. Same with lights, vacuum, all of it. Get rid of everything that isn't stepper motors, and then hand-write lines of code into the terminal- or even load short programs- to run. If that works, try running a program with the spindle on but without activating anything else.

    Before you do this you have to understand how machine homing works in grbl both with and without limit switches, and how to G54 zero from there, or else you might crash the machine. If that works, then you can start figuring out the problems with whatever you have wired up that isn't working. It's a process, but you have to understand how things work in order to follow the process. Otherwise you're just doing stuff, and not understanding the results.

    If you didn't understand all of that... Great! Now you have things to Google and increase your understanding.

    If none of it wants to work, you could try a different CAM, different g-code sender, though you shouldn't need to, a different computer, etc. If reflashing grbl doesn't fix it, then the problem might be the BlackBox itself. It's not as bulletproof over the long term as a traditional Arduino Uno in my experience, though it is much faster and easier to get started with, and much better protected against accidental mixed-up wiring.

    Yeah... I've seen that too, especially on socials.
     
    #21 Rob Taylor, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  22. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Agreed - Definately start by not using Easel (Not our software after all) and rather use our Hello World as a basic, proven, test to work out the kinks first:


    Uninstall that Easel Driver by the way - having two host applications fighting over who'se turn it is to access the port will lead to connection errors :)
     
    #22 Peter Van Der Walt, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Regarding
    PS: that would be a mistake in the GCODE indeed! Good catch. We echo the line sent, (Grbl doesn't have Echo on by default, so the error shows what was sent, not what was received by Grbl) thus the GCODE is indeed mixxing an X axis keyword.
     
  24. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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    Here is a good starting point for learning and understanding what GRBL is: Home · gnea/grbl Wiki

    It will help answer most questions.

    Everytime I had gcode start and stop instantly, it was because of an error in the code which was caused by not using the correct post processor.
     
  25. Michael D Lackey

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  26. Michael D Lackey

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    I don't understand why it would work perfectly using Easel & then nothing.
     
  27. Michael D Lackey

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    Okay, I tried a program that had been giving me problems. I loaded it in from easel and tried it without turning the router on... it worked. I tried it again letting it run a little then hit the switch on the router... as soon as it kicked on I started getting the same error message.

    I have bought ferrite cores and put them on the router power cord, what else can I do?
     
  28. Michael D Lackey

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    Okay tried it again with the router off and it just stopped. No errors, no messages not anything. It just stopped.
     
  29. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Add an Earth to the router
     
  30. Michael D Lackey

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    Every one of them? How can that be? I tried to use Carveco and was TOTALLY LOST. I tried to use the OpenBuilds cam gcode, nothing. I opened the preloaded "Hello world" program and it didn't move. So what part is invalid?
     

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