Hey Folks, I know this is going to be one of those questions where I feel stupid right after someone explains it, but here we go. I just expanded on a LEAD 1010 machine that we have had in place for about 2 years. I was only a helper on the initial build and thus have been challenged on the expansion. After much ado, I think I am getting close to saying that I understand how the machine component's function. What I appear to be missing is an understanding of the control software. Specifically I am trying to use the surfacing wizard to flatten a new spoilboard. I don't have the limit switches wired up since replacing them and thought that I could manually jog the machine to the x,y and Z limits that I want ( basically near the physical limits of travel but without the feedback of the limit switches) and then zero all axis and launch the wizard, hit run job and all would be good. What I get instead is the job starts by moving the x z and y axis up and over several mm and then starts to run. So What is the "best practice " here? It seems like I should wire up the limit switches, tell the machine to find the switches ( how?) and define the machine coordinates based on those and then somehow feed that info into the wizard so that it trues up the entire available workspace Is that about right? Also, our system had limit switches that used 2 wires ( Red and Brown). The new limit switches apparently come with 3 wires. Is it possible to use the new switches with my existing wiring. I am thinking that the dedicated ground wire is what's new? Thanks for the helping hand..... RIchard
To answer the first part of your question you need to understand how the co-ordinate systems on your cnc work. The MACHINE co-ordinate system is set by homing - even if you don't have limit switches (I'm assuming you have a grbl controller - please tell us what control electronics you have so we can answer other bits of your question) - a grbl controller will set the home position wherever it is when you switch on. If you have homing switches you can run a homing cycle which will look for the switches and set the home position when it finds them. The machine co-ordinate system tells the controller where the corners and edges of the machine are. The WORKPLACE coordinates system (wcs) is where work is done. In your cam software you set an ORIGIN - a datum point that is going to be used as a reference for calculating the movements necessary for each toolpath. On the machine you set a wcs ZERO to tell the controller whereabouts on the workpiece you set the origin. I'm guessing you have a blackbox controller? As you mentioned using a surfacing wizard I assume you are using Openbuilds Control - please confirm that and one of us will be able to add how to set things up. Alex.
The several millimeter is half endmill diameter to ensure the resulting surface area matches what you entered, by moving inside this area only (aligning edge of bit to edge of rectangle). This has nothing to do with Homing, but rather with the concept that the surfacing area matches what is entered by the operator, and to do so, needs to offset the Endmill diameter to ensure that extra offset from the centerline of the tool, to the endmill diameter, is accounted for. You Zero the Centerline of the tool, but the cut should run inside the zero point by half the endmill diameter to ensure the edges of the endmill line up with the Zero point. If not, you'd exceed the work area Absolutely - later on when you want to use more advanced CAMs like Fusion 360 etc they REQUIRE a properly set up homing sequence to establish Machine coordinates. Setzero just sets Work Coordinates. Advanced CAMs move in multiple coordinate systems at once. Thus the need to Home to establish G53 / Machine Coordinates Get the new switches. Much better, worth the couple bucks. Onboard EMI Filtering and Troubleshooting LEDs. This is more than just a switch, its active circuitry - 3rd wire provides power to these circuits on the switch. You can use the 2-wire ones of course, but you'll soon want to upgrade anyway to get rid of EMI issues, so do it right from the beginning See docs.openbuilds.com/blackbox for wiring instructions for both types. Home All button on the top toolbar
Alex and Peter, Great replies! Thank you so much for such concise, on point feedback. I feel like I am almost there, so let me clarify a few things and give it another go based on your feedback: This is an Open Builds 1010, using BlackBox and Open Builds Control and a "Extra Parts" high Z conversion I am attaching a photo of the build. I used the extra height of the high z set up to build up our spoil board I want to keep the "reference rail" on the left Y axis fixed in place to allow quick set up I want to use the removeable lower "Reference Rail" for quick set up when the entire spoil board is not needed To accomplish the above I need to first level the spoil board and then reattach the "Reference rail" I drew a line along the inside of the y reference rail and then removed it. I then moved the 38mm cutter to the lower left corner and zeroed the z against the bed top. I aligned the outer part of the cutter head to the line and then set the x, y and z to zero. It sounds like I should have aligned the center of the cutter to the line ? If so then the offset I am experiencing is the difference between the edge of the cutter and the center? The overview of the coordinate systems was quite helpful as well. I did not get the difference in MACHINE coordinates and WORKSPACE coordinates. I was thinking that somehow the wcs took care of it all. So with that, I would like to set the MACHINE coordinates to the current spoil board, flatten it and then reattach the y reference rail and then update the MACHINE coordinates to reflect the rail as the new "Edge" then rewire the "New Limit Switches" to incorporate the three wire set up and "Home" the machine so it discovers and uses the new limits in future use. Could you guys possibly give me a punch down list of the steps to accomplish steps 1 and 2 ? Your replies really helped expand my understanding , although it is a work in progress! Thanks again for the help Richard
Correct, as the surfacing wizard does add the offset for the endmill diameter Negative, you can only set Work Coordinates. Homing sets machine coordinates. Set Zero sets work coordinates. Your hard fences constrains Work Coordinates in XY - and is saved internally as an offset from Machine Coordinates. Correct. Homing > Sets Machine coordinates > Operator places stock/fences/vices/clamps > jogs to stock origin > Sets Zero (offset from Machine Coordinates) > Establishes work Coordinates > Job runs relative to Work Coordinates
Gotcha! So I am heading over to the makerspace where the machine is shortly. If I remove the "reference Rail" on the y and then select the "Home All" button in the control software that will find the MACHINE Limits ( without the limit switches wired in the loop). Assuming thats right, do I then need to run "Home All" each time I restart the machine
No, you need Switches to Home. You can "fake the home" but its such a schlepp and unreliable. Get the switches installed, it will change your life Yes, home every time tor the most reliable experience - Also after every crash, every alarm, any thing that could cause the machine to loose position, needs a rehome afterwards to put the world right again.
Ok, I know we have a a coil of control wire. I don't know that it came with the limit switches but if its 3 wire I should be good to go. So once they are wired in, it is on to the "Home All". Set the x, y and Z as far low and left as the Homing process defines it and then run the wizard?
No - "Home All" will go looking for the switches - if it doesn't find them it will keep looking (past the machine dimensions = crash). You need the switches wired in and you need to enable homing and tell the controller where the switches are (if that is not already set up) - can't find the usual link for gnea grbl configuration settings I use - can you give one @Peter Van Der Walt ?
"Home" (Machine Coordinates G53 X0 Y0 Z0) is (by default) Top, Back and Right (Axis Maximas) : See Frequently Asked Questions · gnea/grbl Wiki You can change where the switches go (front left, for example) but the actual coordinate set is always in the negative quadrant. Origin (Work Coordinates G54-G59.1 X0 Y0 Z0) is whereever your stock 'begins' (bottom left, top surface for OpenBuilds CAM and our surfacing wizard, but just about anywhere on other CAMs, you can set it where-ever you want as long as you both tell the CAM where you want the origin to be, and then Zero in the same spot in the physical world. Also see docs:blackbox:hello-world [OpenBuilds Documentation] as it goes over setting Zero Or invest in a probe and Automate it: docs:xyzprobe:software-control [OpenBuilds Documentation]
Many Thanks. It sounds like it all begins with getting the limit switches wired in ( at least the easiest path). I will start there and update you on my progress. Will also absorb the link info. Cheers, RIchard
Indeed. And if you follow the standard (Install at top of the Z axis - or at least such that RAISING the Z axis triggers the switch, Right and Back - the default Grbl settings will get you going. If you mount them else where, you have to change Homing Dir $23-settings. Easier to follow standard.
I would love to adhere to the standards! So right and back means the far right corner as I face the machine . Also the limit switch on the y axis is on the lower right corner. Is that ok , so limit switches are meant to define the "end of the run"?
Correct the most (axis+) position (jog as far as the + button take you) For Z thats where the bit is Up and furthest away from the stock. Have a read through
You can put switches where you like - you need to tell grbl where they are - see Peter's post above. Back, right, up is always the maximum for each axis so as grbl sets that as (MACHINE co-ordinates remember) X0, Y0 and Z0 as you move away from that corner the machine co-ordinates become negative.
Man, you guys are good. I think I am finally 'good to go'. Thanks and I will confirm once all is good Cheers. Richard
So things looked good for a day or two, now the gremlins have returned! Let me paint a scenario and then ask for advice. Scenario: We took the old limit switch wiring out of the equation to isolate issues. We had what appeared to be a connectivity issue with the X axis wiring. We disconnected the old wiring and put in a new bit of wiring going directly back to the BlackBox. Rechecked all of the physical connections and confirmed they were tight Ran a simple sign file as a test in MDF. File exported from Vcarve Pro and into control via thumb drive. Ran flawlessly took about 30 minutes Ran the exact same file, loaded up the Brazilian hardwood and imported and loaded in the same manner. Ran thru 90% of the cut and then did a hard Z dive somewhere around the final pass. We had the Dust Collection system off and don't see any other devices that could be generating EMI. Questions: The only odd thing observed ahead of the Z dive was that the LED ring around the router started flickering with the 2 or 3 LED's furthest away from the plug in point pulsing on and then off. We trimmed their wires and reseated them in both plugs but the flickering remained Would this possible suggest some type of intermittent power supply issue. Is this a "Known Issue" with the BlackBox or Power Supply? We received a new wiring harness from the support team, plan to replace existing wiring in hopes of finding some stability. Also plan to add ground wire to Gantry and Frame. Would it be necessary to ground frame of power supply and BlackBox to be foolproof? Thanks for the help in our ever evolving chase for stable CNC'ing
2) Adding the earthing will probably help a lot of EMI, so I'd suggest beginning there (sooner rather than later) Could be Serial corruption (as explained in the EMI FAQ page) or Z skipped steps at some point (dial back Max Rate and Acceleration to about half of what they are for Z at the moment - then test again) Possible the ring itself got damaged at some point - disconnect it for now - and do some more tests - if its shorting on a scraped off PCB track or similar it could cause problems to the PSU side - so lets eliminate it first, as a test, completely from the equation Don't forget the machine itself generates EMI too: spindle, stepper motors, power supply, etc
Will do. Just unpacked the wiring that the support folks sent. Looks like they sent me 2 conductor wire based on the original LEAD 1010 limit switches. I will reach out and get the correct 3 conductor. So I will proceed with the rewiring of the steppers while I wait. Thanks
Oops it was all in there! just bundled up tight. Looks like I got Number Sku Description 1 2558 4 conductor - 13 ft 1 2557 4 conductor - 7 ft 1 2556 4 conductor - 3 ft 1 2556 4 conductor - 3 ft 1 2870 3 conductor - 13 ft 1 2870 3 conductor - 13 ft 1 2865 3 conductor - 7 ft 1 2750 2 conductor - 18 ft 8 Surely that is enough for a fresh start ( as opposed to enough rope to hang myself!)
Ok then after viewing the Build Video once again here is what I am starting with tomorrow morning: I will start by including only the stepper motor wiring in the existing drag chains. I plan to leave off the limits and the LED light ring until we successfully run a few jobs without Z dives or any of the sundry issues that we have faced thus far. Once that is stable I plan to reintroduce the limit switches, the LED and route their wiring It is not clear to me how we will get the limits and LED rerouted without using the drag chain , but we can face that once we get there. I will also be introducing a grounding wire to the Z gantry routing it along with the stepper motor wire back thru the drag chain and to a common ground bar connecting back to an earth ground. I plan to attach a separate ground to the frame or y gantry and connect it back as well. I will also included a bare cooper wire wrapped around the dust collection hose and grounded to the common ground bar. Once the grounds and the Stepper motors are in place I intend to use the previous job file that crashed as a test. If we operate with no z dives or sundry trauma then I will incorporate the limits and the LED. Does anyone see any flaws or gaps with this approach? Many Thanks Richard Richard
Thanks! Still at it. Ran into power access issue when shifting to better location. Resolved in the a.m. One thought: Would having the PC housed in a metal cabinet with closed metal doors help or hurt in possible EMI emissions? Not sure if it would block or act as big antenna?
Enclosures help, but every cable entering the enclosure is an antenna More importantly, fixing the Source of the interference is always better than trying to shield everything around it... Earthing the spindle body for example is better than trying to shield and earth 20+ cables around it. Doctor the disease not the symptoms
Update: So we moved the CNC table out of the corner so we can access all sides of it. That made troubleshooting significantly better. I have tightened down all corner brackets and gantry components and pulled off the limit switches and LED leads. I also ran ground wires from the Z gantry, The X gantry and the Y gantry. I ran each one back to a grounding bar that terminated to the building ground. The router is a Dewalt and as I understand it is internally grounded to the circuit. Are you advocating that I attach an external lead to the router chassis and then ground it to the grounding bar as well? Guess I am not entirely clear on "Grounding" to the circuit vs "Earth Grounding" Also we have run about a dozen jobs with no "Z Dives" or other random activity. Will continue testing and then start adding component's back into the system. Thanks for the help!
