Has anyone used a Huanyang GT series VFD with the Blackbox control? I am trying to figure out how to set up the VFD to accept the 0-10v / PWM / 5v direction signal from the blackbox. Again, looking for info more on the VFD side of things. Thank you in advance!
I'm doing the best I can with the manual but its not the most enlightening material. Was hoping someone else has blazed this trail. I did however get everything up and running. I just need a control signal.
At the bottom of docs:blackbox:connect-vfd [OpenBuilds Documentation] you'll find links to known working configs Basically every VFD has a Run Source (usually just jumpered terminals) and Freq Source (set it to 0-10v) to control the speed (0-24000rpm). Along with a Minimum Freq parameter to keep spindle safe.(7200-24000 RPM for example) The Manuals does describe these. Usually with options of Terminal, Keypad, Onboard Potentiometer or RS485. Should currently be set to Keypad or Potentiometer, change the Freq Source parameter to what the manual says relates to input from a 0-10v signal into the analog input terminals, and Run Source to either Keypad (Arm your spindle using the Run/Stop buttons) or Terminal (jumper wire or relay) Some VFDs needs the Enable relay (cannot stop by setting 0-10v to 0v, thus cannot use a jumper on the Run terminals instead wiring it through the relay) as discussed in the Docs, but most can be controlled purely with a 0-10v signal Post the manual's section (PDF or clear pictures / scans) describing those parameters and I'll highlight the ones you need
I did see a post floating out on the web where the AI1 input series of parameters was recommended for the 0-10v control, but I don't think this is correct. The person suggesting seems to be very familiar and fluent with these VFDs and I have posted to that forum asking for assistance as well. The thing is, the manual explains the AI1 input series of parameters to be -10v to +10v, with -100% to +100% settings respectively. The manual also has an AI2 series of parameters which covers 0-10v input and the 0-100% settings, respectively. These are the parameters that I believe I need. The only exception to this is if the PWM input and associated parameters would be a better control? Currently, I have the VFD set up for the AI2 input with parameters as follows: P0.01 =1 (run command source, 0:Keypad, 1:Terminal, 2:Communication) P0.02 =2 (keypad and terminal UP/DOWN setting, 0:valid, 1:valid, value cannot be saved..., 2:invalid..., 3:valid during running...) P0.07 =2 (frequency A command source, 0:keypad, 1:AI1, 2:AI2, 3:HDI, 4:simple PLC, 5:multi-stage speed, 6: PID control, 7:remote communication) P0.08 =? (frequency B command source, 0:AI1, 1:AI2, 2:HDI) P0.09 =? (scale of frequency B command, 0:max output freq, 1:Afreq command) P0.10 =? (frequency command selection, 0: only freq command source A active, 1: only freq command source B active, 2:both freq cmnd source A and B active..., 3:both freq cmnd source A and B active...) P0.11 =5 (acceleration time in seconds) P0.12 =5 (Deceleration time in seconds) P0.13 =0 (running direction selection, 0:default, 1:runs at opposite direction, 2:forbid to run opposite direction) P0.14 =DEFAULT (8?) (carrier frequency, 1-15 for this VFD, 8 factory setting, may have changed during autotune) P0.15 =? (AVR function) P0.16 =PERFORMED AUTO TUNE DURING INITIAL SETUP (motor parameters autotuning) P2.01=4.0 (motor rated power) P2.02=300 (motor rated freq) P2.03=18000 (motor rated speed in rpm) P2.04=220 (motor rated voltage) P2.05=10 (motor rated current) P5.10=0 (terminal control mode, 0:2-wire control..., 1:2-wire control..., 2:3-wire control..., 3:3-wire control... P5.11=.50 (up/down setting change rate) P5.12=0 (AI1 lower limit) P5.13=0 (AI1 lower limit %) P5.14=0 (AI1 upper limit) P5.15=0 (AI1 upper limit %) P5.16=.10 (AI1 filter time constant) P5.17=0 (ASSUMING THIS IS MANUAL TYPO AND ITS SUPPOSED TO BE AI2 LOWER LIMIT?) P5.18=0 (ASSUMING THIS IS ANOTHER MANUAL TYPE AND IS SUPPOSED TO BE AI2 LOWER LIMIT?) P5.19=10 (AI2 UPPER LIMIT) P5.20=100 (AI2 UPPER LIMIT %) P5.21=.10 (AI2 filter time constant) Also - I am not fully understanding the control input wiring diagram notes (attached, highlighted in red) where it says "jumper of AI2 to select I or V". ***EDIT - I took a fresh look today and found that the J16 jumper I vs V indicates I for amperage control or V for voltage. For the 0-10v input I would need J16 V connect to GND (I am assuming). The problem however, is I am not sure what the "V" terminal is. Page 12, figure 4-12 shows the available control terminals and those are what I have to work with...any ideas on which terminal is "V"? I am wondering if this jumper is what allows the VFD to bypass the need for an on/off signal so that the 0-10v signal can double as the stop/start (0v) and (0v < Xv), as well as the RPM control (0v-10v)? Also worth noting is that the multifunction on-off input GT series VFD manual attached
Will check the attachments when I get back in the office - hard to do via mobile V= voltage loops like 0-5v or 0-10v etc I= current based systems like industrial 4-20mA systems. Just different standards, remember VFDs control ANY motor so the flexibility is there for any application that it may need to fit into. Yours should be on V No, Minimum Freq parameter does that as described above. And there are some VFDs that just cannot (though lower 10% of the ones we've seen, most can handle it fine)
I was able to find the J16 jumper location (see attached photo). Its accessible by removing both front covers on the VFD. There is no indication as to whether volts or current is jumped. I tried each, but neither produced any results when I attempt to turn on the tool from the blackbox dashboard on the computer. I am missing a setting somewhere. Jumper J16 located on the board:
I am not seeing any indication whatsoever for the J16 jumper in the manual. I have tried several variations with the jumper in both voltage and current mode, with no luck. I am wondering if the triangle/delta symbol on the board indicates the voltage pin. There seems to be a pattern in convention when comparing it with J4, J15 and J17 pins. Having gone through the settings several times, I am starting to wonder if the issue is in the setup of the command frequency A vs command frequency B settings. Is this section saying that there can be two command frequency assignments, such as the potentiometer on command frequency A and a second on a terminal port such as AI1 or AI2 for the 0-10v input? ***Also to note, that other thread I found on the Industry Arena forum, the person makes mention of jumping the S1 terminal to the COM terminal. I have not tried this since I'm not fond of attaching jumper wires to random terminals without first vetting them somehow. If anyone is reading this and has knowledge of the S1-COM jumper for this GT series VFD, please let me know.
I was able to activate the spindle from the blackbox, kind of. On the blackbox command signal pin out, there is the following: 1. Ground 2. PWM 3. DIR 4. 0-10v I have attached: 1. blackbox ground to terminal ground at VFD 4. blackbox 0-10v to terminal AI2 I also had a jumper from Terminal COM to Terminal S1 (with S1 set to FWD) This did not work. Just out of chance, I decided to recheck the voltage coming out of the blackbox 0-10v lead. I pulled the plug at the blackbox to test directly at the box (easier for me), the 0-10v signal tested 5v at 50%, 10v at 100% when activated. I then noticed that my 0-10v wire was not seated inside the metal clamp down, but was underneath it - I reconnected this to ensure a good connection, performed continuity tests to make sure everything was good. I retested the same setup listed above, with no results. I then disconnected the Terminal COM to Terminal S1 jumper by disconnecting it at the S1 Terminal. For whatever reason, I touched the jumper (still connected to COM) to the S1 terminal and it activated the VFD run mode. I secured the jumper to S1, went to the computer and ran M3 s9000, and the spindle ran up to 50% like it should. I ran M3 S18000 and it went to 100% like it should. Then M5 to turn it off. The constant COM to S1 jumper at the VFD before powering on will not allow the spindle to run - this is consistent with the notes on page 48 of the VFD manual. I tried this again. I had ground, AI2, and a wire connected to COM. I then jumped COM to S1 (and secured to S1) while the VFD was on, activating the run mode. The VFD fans ran up to run mode. I sent an M3 from the computer to the blackbox, the spindle ran up like it should. I sent an M5 and the spindle went back down to 0 rpm like it should. I tested once more, touched the COM to S1 jumper (and secured to S1) to activate the run mode. VFD fans ran up. I sent M3 at 100%, spindle ran up to 100%. I then disconnected the jumper from S1 and the spindle powered down as if I sent an M5. Disconnecting the S1 did the same thing as a stop command. So this tells me that the S1 is wanting a signal similar to a relay. That said, is there any way I can use the relay on the blackbox to do this? I tried measuring the voltage at the blackbox relay and did not see anything when I set any of the toolhead options to an M3 run mode. Is this relay for an incoming signal or an outgoing signal? What can you tell me about this relay - what was the design intent for this?
See last point of docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation] However, this would the first Huanyuang we see where it's needed and correct VFD parameters (Min Freq etc) doesn't resolve it - Haunyang's usually has the RUN signal hardwired, not via the relay, and purely 0-10v controlled. It's a relay - it closes when triggered - no voltage. Measure continuity See docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation]
Nearly all set ups that I have been seeing or reading about use the Huanyang HY series VFD. I haven't seen too many with the GT series. Someone had mentioned that the bigger differences between the HY and GT series is that the terminals on the HY series are fixed whereas the GT series can be programmed. They also mentioned the GT series is kind of a "blank slate" that requires a lot of parameter set up. I have never used the HY series, so I can only take this at face value. I'll look into the relay this afternoon. I am very close to having this thing running.... These small victories have been hard won, that's for sure. But if there is any silver lining to it, the incredible amount of knowledge I have gained from a build vs a buy is more than I even expected. Its incredible!
Could be, as mentioned, that's why the documentation has the option for the odd ones that simply cannot - would just be a little surprised myself (and worth a writeup for you to do once its all done so we can add the outliers to the docs)
I was just trying to run up the spindle again, made no changes and now I am getting error codes. OC1, OC3 OC1: over current when acceleration. Reasons: 1. Acceleration time is too short, 2. The voltage of the grid is too low, 3. The power of the inverter is too low Solution: 1. Increase acceleration time, 2. Check the input power, 3. Select bigger capacity inverter OC3: over-current when constant speed running Reasons: 1. The load transients are abnormal, 2. The voltage of the grid is too low, 3. The power of the inverter is too low Solution: 1. Check the load or reduce the transient of the load, 2. Check the input power supply, 3. Select bigger capacity inverter I attempted to set everything back so that I can run the spindle off of the keypad. I made changes to do so, tried to run up the spindle and am getting the same errors. This time I cleared all fault records, and reset all parameters to factory settings P0.17=2 and P0.17=1 I double checked/set all of the initial settings P0.00 thru P0.006, these were good. I double checked/set all of the motor parameter initial settings P2.00 thru P2.05, these were good. I performed the auto tune P0.16=1 and tripped the over-current fault. According to the manual, it states to set the proper acceleration and deceleration time (P0.11 and P0.12) according to the motor inertia before performing auto tuning. This was never an issue when I ran auto tune the 2 or 3 times before this. The acceleration and deceleration times are both set at 10s each. Is there a way to find the acceleration time for my motor? This is something that I am unfamiliar with.
Those type of specific questions really should be directed at the spindle supplier. Though I'll do add, have seen that happen when the UVW cable's terminals are left loose on inverter or spindle end and not making good contact - worth a check as it was working earlier.
Ok, that would make sense on the spindle end - one of the issues with this spindle is the U, V, W, and ground connections. The plastic cover that goes over the terminals during normal use is very cramped and puts a lot of strain on the wire connectors. I did notice that one of the connectors had a little play in it - I have crimped ring connectors on these since they connect to terminal studs. I have not addressed the ring connectors yet, but I plan to redo these with something more robust. I have also 3D printed a large spacer that acts as a strain relief for the wiring once I get everything working and closed up. Oddly enough, I powered cycled and tripped the OC3. I power cycled again, reset everything once again, and was able to successfully run up the spindle with the keypad/potentiometer. From here, I re-established the settings to run from the terminal with the 0-10v signal. Back to the previous result. Everything works fine, except that I need a "run and hold" signal to S1 in order to use the M3 signal and 0-10v at the VFD AI2 input terminal. When I was looking at this, I also saw there is an option for HDI control (see attached). Is this the PWM input by chance? Just taking a guess, but does the HDI stand for (H)igh speed (D)igital (I)nput? What, if any, are the advantages of using a PWM command signal vs the 0-10v analog signal? I am familiar with PWM and analog, but for this type of direct application is there any advantage to one over the other?
Thinking about that relay idea - I went back out and tested both the S1 and the COM terminals in their standby state. Findings: 1. COM terminal = 0v DC 2. S1 terminal = 20v DC When I want to run the spindle, I need to jump COM to S1 and hold the connection. This drops the S1 voltage to 0v, initiates a run condition, and the VFD can now run and respond to the 0-10v signal from the blackbox. This tells me that I *should* be able to use a NO relay between the S1 and COM terminals of the VFD, tapping the 0-10v control wire to cycle it. The problem is going to be finding a NO relay that can use a dynamic voltage range of 0-10v (I haven't searched for any). Technically, 0v would not matter in any case since the spindle would be stopped.
Ok, I discovered something interesting, maybe you could help me figure out what is going on here... I opened the black box and checked the relay jumper - it is set to respond to the M3/M5 commands. When I went to activate the spindle (M3 S18000), everything came on and functioned as it should. I then powered down with the M5 command. Next, I tested the following, with the following outcomes: 1. M3 S1800 = NO SPINDLE FUNCTION (10%) 2. M3 S4500 = NO SPINDLE FUNCTION (25%) 3. M3 S9000 = NO SPINDLE FUNCTION (50%) 4. M3 S13500 = SPINDLE FUNCTION (75%) 5. M3 S12000 = SPINDLE FUNCTION (66%) 6. M3 S11000 = NO SPINDLE FUNCTION (61%) 7. M3 S11500 = SPINDLE FUNCTION (~64%) 8. M3 S11250 = INCONSISTENT SPINDLE FUNCTION (62.5%) 9. M3 S11300 = INCONSISTENT SPINDLE FUNCTION (62.7%) 10. M3 S11350 = INCONSISTENT SPINDLE FUNCTION (63%) 11. M3 S11400 = INCONSISTENT SPINDLE FUNCTION (63.3%) 12. M3 S11450 = INCONSISTENT SPINDLE FUNCTION (63.6%) 13. M3 S11500 = SPINDLE FUNCTION (~64%) It appears that starting the spindle via M3 at anything less than 11000 rpms isn't enough to trigger the relay allowing the S1 terminal (at 20v idle) to drop voltage to 0v (across COM terminal). In nearly all of my previous testing and troubleshooting, I had been activating the spindle at 50% power (M3 S9000). Because of this, the spindle was not activating and giving me the false indication that something else was wrong. Manual jumper wire between S1 and COM terminals yielded the following: 1. M3 S1800 or greater (I have not tested any values below 10%) What kind of relay is being used at this location? Any idea why this is occurring?
M3/M5 Position is for Plasma. Putting a PWM signal into the relay will make it chatter. Varying S values like used with a spindle uses PWM. Use the Enable function as indicited above and in the documentation. And And No need to experiment (as mentioned above and in the documentation, there are just two standardised control schemes - 0-10v only, or 0-10v+run signal via the relay. Just follow the documentation. Move jumper, recompile Grbl. It's all in the Documentation
I am trying to offer you support on a product we don't even supply. Have you contacted the VFD vendor and asked for support yet? Explaining that "I want to use your VFD in an application that only has a 0-10v output accesible by default. Can you help me with VFD parameters to enable spindle start and speed control using only a 0-10v signal, and how to enable Minimum Frequency properly so the spindle shuts dows if the 0-10v signal drops below 7200rpm? Here's how they use a HY series inverter VFD Spindle Control via OpenBuilds BlackBox Controller and Software can you advise me on the equivalent parameters for the GT series I purchased from you?" (for example) Otherwise use the section from our Relay documentation (you will have to recompile Grbl but that is incredibly easy. Edit that one line in config.h instructions are in the file. Open the Grblupload from Arduino examples and click Upload. If you want a return contact the store on Support
Yes, I have contacted and spoke with the VFD manufacturer. I’ve mentioned this a few times. “Mike” at Huanyang is helpful to a point, but there is no way to have any meaningful discussion about anything. The tutorial videos for the controls cover a 3 wire I am aware that running a low rpm on either style of spindle is not ideal and can result in damage. I am capable of operating this spindle at 8000 rpm or above for prolonged periods by sending m3 s8000. I am periodically running and testing it as low as 1800 rpm for about 60 second or so to see if the spindle will spin up - this is so I can check to see if the S1 to COM signal is operating correctly. If it is, then it is one less thing I need to worry about later on when swapping to a 3-phase electric motor. I did try the jumper across S1 and COM with the minimum frequency set to 30Hz - this did not work. It’s because the S1 and COM cannot be jumped prior to power on. The jumper from S1 to COM has to be applied after the VFD is powered on, otherwise it prevents any motor function in FWD or REV. I can only assume that the GT series VFD is geared more towards PLC systems. Either way, that’s the challenge that needs to be overcome - finding a way to close that circuit after the VFD is turned on, and opening it when the operation is complete. If you think the enable option will work, I will try it. You know your product better than I do. Try to remember that the stuff you’ve been looking at for years is the same stuff I just started looking at only months ago. I’m still bumping around trying to figure out what I don’t know. I sincerely appreciate the help that you’ve provided up to this point. I had been thinking about making a write up for this once we have it figured. Here’s what “mike” at Huanyang gave me when I asked for help with the 0-10v setup….
I am GMT+2 - sorry I was asleep when you were waiting on reply. Just woke up When I get to the office (15:00 our time, 08:00 US time) i'll send you a compiled HEX do you can avoid the compilation step
Right, so here's what I did for you 1) Downloaded the Grbl source code as a ZIP file 2) Extracted the "grbl" subfolder into the Arduino > Libraries folder on my computer 3) Inside this folder, I edited config.h. I scrolled through it and found the section talking about USE_SPINDLE_DIR_AS_ENABLE_PIN which is also mentioned in our documentation 4) I simply uncommented the line by deleting the doubleslashes and saved the changes. 5) I started Arduino and loaded the grblUpload example as per the Grbl Wiki documentation's compile page instructions: 6) If I had your controller hooked up I'd now just have one button left to click: the Upload button in Arduino's top toolbar The use of the word 'Compilation' sounds complicated, but this is all it takes _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ For you however, I've compiled it to a HEX file (attached to this post by doing the above, it's zipped, remember to unzip) and all you need to do is: 1) Open OpenBuildsCONTROL 2) Go to Wizards and Tools > Firmware flashing tool 3) Select BlackBox, Machine Style: Custom, the corrrect port, and browse to the HEX file provided here using the red button. 4) Click FLASH - Check the log and make sure it was successful. Don't forget to move the jumper to the DIR/VFD position: docs:blackbox:jumper-relay [OpenBuilds Documentation] Wire COM to one relay terminal and S1 to the other: See (f) of section 2 of docs:blackbox:layout [OpenBuilds Documentation]
I appreciate you taking the time to edit and compile the hex file. Unfortunately, the "use spindle DIR as enable" option doesn't work. When the blackbox powers up for the first time, does that relay close at all? Even for just a brief, split second when it runs through its startup sequence?
Blackbox does trigger the relay briefly upon startup... This is the problem. In the coding, is there a way to turn this off during the initial startup and when connecting to the blackbox via USB/Port?
If you write the firmware to the black box with a programmer. you can avoid having pin 13 toggle at boot up. This is detailed in the GRBL code. You can find further information here. https://openbuilds.com/threads/question-about-custom-firmware.17526/#post-112400
Pin 13 toggling at boot / reset ect. is due to a bootloader configuration. Rather annoying particularly for those of us who run grbl and make use of the "use_spindle_dir_as_enable_pin" option often. To retain a bootloader, which I would recommend for updating and changing grbl over usb. You will need to compile and install optiboot yourself with the following option " LED_START_FLASHES=0 atmega328 " this will permanently stop pin 13 from toggling.
