Simple question - is the Black Box Motion Control system compatible with UCCNC PC software? I've been using UCCNC and a customized screenset with all sorts of zeroing features and would not want to switch unless I can continue to have all those features. I have a UC100 USB motion controller hooked up to a Gecko 450 in my present set up, but the interface between them is parallel port. So I'd need the UCCNC SW to talk directly to the Black Box USB interface
CONTROL only supports Grbl 1.1 based controllers You can use your existing electronics if you wish, refer to your other thread where I mentioned the possibility, or do the switch to CONTROL and BlackBox Learn more on start [OpenBuilds Documentation]
Where can I see a feature list for CONTROL? I suspect that UCCNC is more full featured, but I'll check it out. Another option is to keep my electronics, but still get the Black Box and swap it into my existing machine for sale of that machine. The features of UCCNC that I rely on are the 3D tool path preview window, plus these probing features:
Just downloaded and looked at CONTROL. Looks great! Found a video showing all the probing modes I need. Don't have the control box yet, so I'll have to rely on the video, since I don't see a simulation mode in CONTROL to check out those features. One little question. The toolpath preview looks great, when I move the machine position prior to starting a cut, will I see the current machine position in the toolpath preview?
Actually, on closer inspection, I can't see how to turn off "perspective" in the 3D viewer, which makes it less useful for previewing the machine position relative to the toolpath. That's a shame, I use that a lot to make sure I haven't screwed up before doing a cut. So for instance, in the next reply is a top view of a contour cut (with multiple depths which you can't see), with the tool position in yellow: With no perspective, you can exactly see what is going on from top view. You can also look at side view, of course. Is there any way that CONTROL can produce such a view? It would be a shame if it can't.
I dont think you can turn off perspective, but its easy enough to get in were you need to. Right mouse click to drag Middle mouse click to rotate.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to do. Without being able to turn off perspective, you can't accurately judge the position of your tool vs the toolpath. I do this all the time to make sure I've got clearances from clamps, etc., especially when the clearances are tight. It's really valuable. I do this with a strict "top view" for these clearances, and a strict "side view" to make sure cuts are not going to go too deep. It's really great for protecting me from my own mistakes. Look at the graphic I printed above. It looks like a single trace, but in fact that contour is cut at multiple depths. If perspective drawing was enabled, you'd see multiple lines because of the multiple depths, which is not good for this purpose. I hope this all makes sense.
I understood. Peter will have to chime in about disabling it. I was merely offering some insight on how the controls work (a lot of people dont know).
OK, got it. My comments were in the spirit of - "OK this is really close". I'd like very much to get onboard with an open source approach to all this. But disabling perspective and seeing tool position in the toolpath visualizer is a "must have" for me.
Not possible at the moment, though to be fair Perspective view works well for most other people doing the same setups: just rotate view to investigate
My point is that OpenBuildsCONTROL does NOT display an orthographic view. It displays a perspective view. Here's an orthographic top view of a toolpath for a bass guitar pickup cavity, which is perfect for verifying clamp positions, assuming that the display also shows the tool position. Here's how that same view is displayed in OpenBuildsControl (I got it as close as possible to a top view over the path, that's a whole different issue): That's a perspective view, not an orthographic view. If I could get an orthographic view in OpenBuildCONTROL, that would be perfect.
I frankly don't understand why perspective view is ever useful for this sort of work. I never use it in Fusion 360 either. Every now and then something might look funny in orthographic view, but the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages.
If you prefer your UCCNC workflow, consider keeping it. BlackBox is optional extra during checkout, you are free to use whatever you prefer
Yep. That will have to be my approach for now. The mix and match option is part of why I'm going with Openbuilds, and I'm excited to get the quote for the modified LEAD CNC (I already sent an inquiry to the shop). Having said all that, I always like to support open source projects, and would have liked it if OpenBuildsCONTROL would have worked out or will work out at some point in the future. So I was pointing out the utility of UCCNC features I use, in the spirit of constructive suggestions for OpenBuildsCONTROL.
While I do understand what you are saying, Perspective view really helps understand a 3D file "better" - that choice was made with reason and user acceptance testing back in the day As for jogging around fixtures etc - tool is shown when you are connected to a controller, and in a perspective view, where you can rotate the view in full 3 dimensions you can see much better where you are than in a 2D view - i think you are just resisting it because you haven't actually used it in practice We do have a full unrestricted JS macro system in place - with some work you can use that to replace the Perspective camera with the Orthographic camera if you want to put in the time to do so. var camera is a global variable so can be replaced at runtime. You'd need to to adjust initiation parameters, controls assignments etc. Here's something quick and dirty to get you started (Rest is up to you): Put that in a JS macro, load a file, see its in Perspective, run the Macro, see its changed to Ortho. Zoom, reset view etc needs some work to adapt to the different Camera, but you can use JS macros to replace built in functions too: OpenBuilds-CONTROL/viewer.js at 220c8b86b25c5c1322321f4eeff51ebae9f34092 · OpenBuilds/OpenBuilds-CONTROL for example has to calculate a fustrum for the perspective camera, so it needs to do something different if the camera is an Orthographic Code: camera = new THREE.OrthographicCamera(sceneWidth / -(sceneWidth/sceneHeight), sceneWidth / 2, sceneWidth / (sceneWidth/sceneHeight), (sceneWidth/sceneHeight) / -2, 1, 1000); camera.position.z = 500; controls = new THREE.OrbitControls(camera, renderer.domElement); vs We do appreciate suggestions, but do understand they are weighted according to the Benefits one, or benefits many mantra. CONTROL is mainly aimed at beginners - ease that learning curve, get more people into the hobby. Perspective view assists with that. Then on top of that, we make it extremely customizable through the Macros, but thats something individuals can put in the work to make it do exactly what they want it to do Having an application where you can use macros to change some core implementations is as powerful as it gets
bCNC already supports othographic, and will work with a Blackbox perfectly. also open source and multiplatform
I tried running bCNC and viewing one of my adaptive clearing toolpaths. It looks like it loaded part of the file and then bailed, only part of the code is displayed. Is there a size limit? The gcode file I loaded is 5.6 MB. The gcode loads fine into OpenBuildsCONTROL, but of course then I have the perspective vs. orthographic issue.
I get it. I'm not a beginner, I'm not a professional. I get that you have to prioritize features, and am so appreciative for the active online community here. I guess the part that still puzzles me is why even relative beginners wouldn't find the orthographic view with live tool position to be incredibly handy. And the reason is that it has been so handy for me since the very beginning of my experience. It's so easy to see where your tool is relative to a cut such as a contour cut with multiple depths, using a pure top view. Using a pure side view, I can jog the tool, see the position relative to the cut, and know if I'm going to cut too deep. It's saved me many times, cutting too deep into your table is terrible, and so are collisions between tool or collet and clamps or screws. I guess I see it as a feature that, once you've used it, it becomes essential. But of course it's just my opinion and workflow, as you've noted. The fact that you provide any control SW is laudable!
I guess I didn't scroll up far enough. Sorry about that! Since I'm a programmer by trade, it should be easy to write JS macros. I've already had to modify a JS Fusion 360 Post to compensate for sag in the unsupported main rails on my Zenbot 2448. The sag was subtle, but if you are building bass necks anything is too much. So this is looking much better, and thanks so much for this!! I'll spend some time with it. And the advantage of getting into the code is that I can write code to so a pure side view for checking depths. This is possible in UCCNC and I do it all the time, but it is fiddly. So let me understand, since I don't have a controller yet. If the cut is running, you'll the tool move in the view? On a related note, I noticed that the tool disappears when you are directly overhead when running a simulation. In UCCNC, you'll see a little circle when looking at a top view. Would I be able to get this same result with macro programming?
Yes, the cone follows the DRO positions. You can abuse the macros to their full extent. Inject side/top/bottom/front/back buttons over the 3D viewer if you want to, write functions to reposition controls/cameras etc Threejs is quite easy to use - lots of docs.
OK, I admit, I'm feeling a bit stupid. I've been trying to create a macro with the code at #17, and I'm failing miserably. I was able to create a macro, copying the code from #17. But I cannot figure out how to: Run the Macro Delete the Macro I've done a fair amount of google searching, but nothing that useful shows up. Is there a tutorial from Openbuilds on the context in which macros run, and so forth? "Getting started with Openbuilds Macros". Something like that? I know I'm missing something really basic, because even though I'm feeling stupid, I've made a good living writing code in many languages for 35 years, so once I get over this hump, I should be good. I'm running this on MacOS for trying things out, even though my CNC control machine is Windows 11. I hope that isn't why I can't get past the basics here.
Normally, and most basic way: Click the button on the Macros tab, or assign a Keyboard shortcut to it. If its grayed out, you need to be connected to a controller first. Make sure to put JS code on the Javascript tab. Gcode macros goes on the GCODE tab. Supports both However its more powerful than that - you can even wrap your macro, in more javascript code that - does whatever you want it to do - for example - inject a button for it onto the main toolbar, or - run it using the "Run macro at startup" tickbox (for the Camera one - probably needs to do it on a setTimeout to run a couple seconds after loading the app so the 3D viewer is already loaded by the time it runs) See Getting started with Javascript Macros in CONTROL / Library of Macros created by the community to learn more and see some of the other examples you can borrow code from. Its limitless - JQuery, HTML, Metro UI Components Library for UI elements, etc are all at your disposal. Want to modify or inject into the main UI? Checkout the github repo for CONTROL - you can put ANY javascript in the macro - to even redefine built in functions, delete DOM elements, change CSS, whatever. One user here who does that a lot is Sharmstr: See Blog for some of her Macros - she likes adding buttons to main toolbars, even adding more tabs on some of her latest work - the Macros function is really as powerful as the person using it. On the Macro tab > On the Macro's button > Click the little Gear icon to Edit the Macro > Delete button is on that window:
There is no size limit, but there is a TIME limit, little edit box at top right of the 3D display. Code will run fine without being displayed entirely, saves a lot of time and 3D toolpaths when you are moving around to check things.
I spent some time looking at this, got the example macro to work, started looking at the development environment. This all looks really promising but will take me some effort to absorb. Since I'm also thinking about the mechanical aspects of the new machine, and using my present CNC for a project, it may take a while. I'm sure I'll be asking for a hand here and there along the way. Thanks for all the help so far!!
