I don't see any reason it wouldn't work. It looks like it fastens directly to the end of the router rather than the machine, which eliminates a lot of compatibility headaches - the only question is whether the collar that goes around the router is thin enough to fit in the space between the router & C-beam, which might force you to mount the router lower & lose some Z travel. They also don't mention what size vac hose it's designed to take, so you could find yourself in need of an adapter.

The bigger question is what price tag you put on your time. You've got a brand new CNC rig just itching to be used - unless you've got a specific job you're in a rush to use the machine for, there are far worse choices for a warm up project than making yourself a dust shoe, and there are scads of designs/tutorials/videos out there to use as a starting point.

Making one also lets you tailor it to your specific needs. Personally, after too many years with a terribly erratic machine, I get twitchy when I can't see what the tool is doing, so I want something that offers more visibility - I may do something out of clear acrylic.

I'm definitely curious to see what other people are using/planning/making, though.


-Bats
(of course, before I can make a dust shoe, I need to actually get a spindle mounted, don't I?)

 

Yep, the diameter of the piece that goes around the router is what worried me. It looks like it’ll fit, but the seller doesn’t know for sure. He does offer different sized vacuum ports though, which is cool. I might just fab up my own, I just figured for like $40, it looked like it may be worth trying.

 

Well, if you're using the Openbuilds router mount (and if the STEP version of the part models is accurate), and you snug the dustshoe's collar all the way up to the mount (which is probably unnecessary, and likely counterproductive) then you've got 4.7mm between the router body and the corner of the black angle connectors. That distance increases the lower you mount it, until, at 20mm below the mount, you're past the connectors and have a full 19mm (more if you're using any shims) between the router body and the back edge where the mount meets the C-beam.

So as long as he can tell you the thickness of that collar around the router (which should be fairly predictable, unless "We hand make them on a precision 3D printer" means "we just kinda jog the extruder around freehand"), that should tell you if & where it can be mounted.

Me? I'm still skeptical that it's worth buying in the first place... but I'm poor and have an excess of time on my hands to make things, so that equation is going to look a lot different for other people.


-Bats
(and after buying a Lead and a not-quite-antique mill in the same month as Christmas shopping, I'm extra poor)

 

Has anyone ‘sidegraded’ from a Sphinx to a LEAD machine?

Currently running a 1010 Sphinx but am getting itchy fingers and want to get down and dirty with the mechinaicals.

I’d be reusing a lot of what I have and swapping plates etc so would be a simple ish change.

Don’t get me wrong the Sphinx is doing the job but fancy a change for absolutely no reason!

Chris

 

I am trying to wire up the lead. I think that I need to take the wires out of the connector that the red arrow is pointing at, and wire those into the blue terminal on the board. I think that I need to wire the led light into that same terminal too? Let me know if I am on the right track. I wish they would have not skipped steps in the build video as this has been extremely frustrating putting together then taking back apart down the line to add a part.

 

Built complete! N00b question: what machine output setting to used for lead on software like Vectric? everytime I try to upload an image or dxf to the openbuilds cam webpage it crashes.

 

Tune in next Saturday, kids, for more exciting adventures with the fearless Openbuilds team as they battle to save the world from their renegade creations, the maniacal mechanical Mechinaicals! Brought to you by High Fructose Syrup Snaps cereal - now with more than 600% of the US recommended daily allowance of artificial sweeteners!

(like Jem and the Holograms, it's probably one of those cartoons where the villains have much cooler toys than the heroes)

Sphinx to Lead seems like an awful lot of work for very little gain... if you're looking to rebuild anyhow, you need to set your sights higher! Why rebuild into any old Lead when you could rebuild into the ever-so-nifty dual-spindle Lead with rotary axis that Skip & I were talking about yesterpage?

Sure, it's new and unexplored territory, with no guides, maps, or build videos (featuring the Mark Carew drinking contest - great fun at parties!), but just think of all the things you could make! All the round things!

(seriously - ever since Skip described his idea, I'm dying to try making one... if I hadn't just emptied my wallet on the basic Lead and the yet-to-be-reassembled Italian mill that I keep cracking my shins on, I'd be all over it)


-Bats
(Try the glamorous new Lead-ER with Extra Rotary axis! It's the lead-er Lead!)

 

Oh boy, what have I begun? Lol
Well heck, if we're advising guidance, why not slap some Nema 34 motors on that build and some multi start lead screws to give you speed AND torque?
(Then you can post it all online to give multiple failure builders like me a place to start from! Lol)

 

More importantly, which subforum should it be categorized under?!

 

Ah, for the halcyon days of usenet... When, instead of having to make a decision, one could simply crosspost to every relevant subfor newsgroup.

-Bats
( including the always-relevant alt.flame, and the inevitable alt.cascade... and the lesser known alt.bats.feels.old.old.old )

 

My Lead is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. To those of you who have already assembled one, any tips or tricks that aren’t mentioned in the videos?

 

Yes. Absolutely. (note: this should not be taken to imply that Absolut is recommended for use in Tip #4)

First, there are some tools & accessories that aren't included in the kit or mentioned on the build page that are either used in the video or aren't used but might make your life easier if they had been. I may be forgetting a couple, but these are the ones that spring to mind and/or ended up in my notes:

• Painters tape / Masking tape
  • Used in the video to hold assorted parts in place - strictly optional, but handy
• Silicone lube or spray
  • Not used in the video, but may save some strain when trying to hand-thread the leadscrews into stiff nut blocks. It's not as easy as he makes it look.
• Power drill / Power screwdriver / Impact driver with Phillips bit.
  • Used to mount endcaps with the misleadingly named "self-threading screws". Spoiler: They ain't self threading. They're threaded by the application of sheer brute force - your sheer brute force.
• 6mm hex insert for said driver
  • Entirely optional, but makes things go quicker with some of the longer screws.
• Screw lube
  • Umm... No. Not that kind of screw - this is a children's show! (or maybe it's a childish show... but at least a polite and fully-clothed childish show). The aforementioned "self" threading screws will require substantially less of the aforementioned "sheer brute force" if lubricated. I used thread cutting oil because it was within reach, but beeswax, paste wax, 3-in-1 oil, or even not-a-lube WD-40 is likely to make your life easier.
• Sharpie (or other marking device)
  • For marking locations. If you've got good eyesight, a pencil might be sufficient. If you went for the black finish, you may want something more like a silver or white paint pen. If you don't care about your finish, you can use scriber. If you want to feel like a machinist, you can use Dykem blue and a scriber.
• Measuring tape, metric+Inches
  • Mark specifies in the video that you need a metric measuring tape. He then proceeds to give every single measurement in inches. Obviously this means your tape needs to speak both languages.
• M5x.08 tap + tap wrench
  • Not strictly necessary, and ideally you'll never have to use it at all. It does come in handy, though, if you didn't order spares and are too impatient to wait for replacements when you discover some of your T-nuts are misthreaded.

Tip #1: If at all possible, have a clear workspace at least 1.5 times the size of the finished machine to build on - so about 1.5m x 1.5m for the Lead 1010 - with a solid, hard surface. Workbenches = good. Pegboard = less good. Carpet = bad. Your neighbor's snoozing mastiff = extra bad (but probably big enough). Really enormous lazy susan = perfect.

Tip #2: Drop-in T-nuts really are pretty awesome... but only when they engage properly. When possible it's best to tighten down the screws using drop-ins before tightening down screws into more conventional or reliable mountings (ie, regular T-nuts or pretty nearly anything else with threads in it) - that way you can see whether or not the part is cinching down tightly. If the part doesn't cinch down to the rail, there are two possibilities: One, if the screw is tightened, the part isn't tight against the rail, and it can't slide, you may have used the wrong length screw & it's digging into the back of the channel before it can pull the T-nut tight (this can happen with regular T-nuts too); Two, if the part just plain isn't attached, the T-nut didn't rotate to engage. I've found, counterintuitively, that this usually happens if the screw has been threaded too far onto the nut before the nut is inserted in the slot. Usually it can be fixed or preempted by slotting the nut and then first loosening the screw all the way (if you hold the screw in place with the driver, the nut shouldn't fall down) before tightening it.

Tip #3: As you go, take notes of any questions, anything confusing, anything you might want to refer back to, and anything that seems completely unimportant now but will prove absolutely essential two hours from now. Even more importantly (although this is something that really should be on the build page) take note of the timestamps at the beginning of each step, or, if you really want to save yourself some headaches, go through the video in advance and make bookmarks (right-click -> Copy video URL at current time) to each step. If you're going to be watching the videos on a phone or tablet at the workbench instead of a full desktop, definitely do this. I didn't (using a 7" tablet) and there was much cursing and gnashing of teeth and rending of anything within reach as I'd try to get back to a given point to double check something. On a desktop it's reasonably to scroll a 2hr video to within ~10-15sec of a target mark, but on a small touchscreen it's not much fun, and you're going to be hearing Mark say "alright guys, that looks awesome!" a half dozen times for each step you're trying to find...

...which brings me to the all-important Tip #4: Alcohol! Ideally beer, cider, or other low-alcohol-content beverages, as Mark Carew's Super-Exciting CNC Assembly Video Drinking Game has been known to cause accidents, injuries, and liver failure when played with liquor, and thus should be attempted only by skilled professionals.

A few abridged, edited, and more than mildly censored excerpts from my notes on the video itself (these will be less helpful read in parallel with the video than read as advance warning of things to watch out for):

• At 00:02:27 you will not, in fact, be using black nylock nuts as described, you'll be using the silvery grey nylock nuts packaged with the nut blocks. Or you can use your black nuts now and get confused later when he tells you to use the black nylocks and all you have are the silvery grey ones that were included with the nut blocks but strangely never used.
• 00:23:36 "Alright, that looks great, guys!". Take a drink every time you hear this phrase. Smaller sips are optional for "perfect", "excellent", "awesome", and, of course, "super-excited". Professional players may also add "guys" to the list, but only with adequate medical supervision.
  
• 00:23:58 You'll be told to install the antibacklash nut with pieces left out. See this thread for how to do it right.
• 00:27:19 There's no indication given as to the up/down orientation of the pieces. Whenever I eventually get around to tearing apart my gantry to fix properly set the antibacklash nut, I'll try to mention which orientation would've made my life easier. Also, when you put this part onto the gantry, you'll want those eccentrics facing up so you can actually get at them later.
• 00:32:55 That leadscrew's going to take a whole lot more muscle and swearing to thread in than the video shows. In retrospect, it would've made things a lot easier to use some nice grippy gloves, a bit of silicone spray, and maybe even wrapping the end of the screw in rubber padding & sticking it in a drill chuck.
• 00:34:27 It's easy to get distracted while scratching your head over the meaning of "Utilize one of our rails to our Y-axis plate", but pay attention - you're about to assemble the machine with all of your X-axis eccentrics mounted underneath. This is great because it'll give you easy access as soon as you build an elevator mechanism and/or ceiling hoist to lift up the machine any time you need to adjust it. If, for some strange reason, you get the silly notion of adjusting them without lifting & getting underneath the machine, you'll be out of luck. Mark may jump in with a perfectly logical reason for the way he did it in the video, but unless it's awfully convincing, do the opposite. Put it together with the eccentrics on top (I'm not positive offhand whether it can be reversed at this stage, or if it requires more backtracking - use your judgement). This is something else I'll be doing whenever I manage to find the motivation to tear everything apart and rebuild it.
• 00:38:57 [ extensive and unprintable scrawl of obscenities ]
  • If you're like me, this is the point where you discovered that, while you did a careful inventory of every. single. screw. the night before, you completely neglected to inventory every. single. rail. and you're missing several (one that missed the packing list, one that missed the shopping cart, and one C-beam that missed the box, bounced off some concrete, and got bent slightly closed before getting back into the box). Openbuilds support is beyond awesome, friendly, and ships fast (thanks again, Rachel!), but this really isn't something you want to discover mid-build.
    
  • On a related note, as has been noted once or twice in the thread already, there are some QC issues with the T-nuts. If you're doing a full inventory in advance and have the patience, grab a screw and test them all to make sure they're threaded all the way through. If not, test them all before sliding them into a slot. Almost as bad as discovering you're missing a rail is finding out that those T-nuts you slid into a rail four steps back aren't fully threaded & you have to pull everything back apart to replace them... and then ask support to send you more because now you don't have enough parts. If you don't want to worry about potentially needing replacements sent, then (as mentioned in the tools section) either add a pack of spares to your order, pick up an M5x0.8 tap & cheap tap wrench from your local hardware store to fix any that're damaged. My kit had at least 5-6 that had to be repaired before they could be used. Half of those I discovered far too late.
• 00:39:55 Make sure you're doing this on one of the slightly shorter (962mm) rails, not the slightly longer (985mm) ones, as will be mentioned once you're done and starting on the next one.
  
• 00:40:07 For the first time, you'll be told that the orientation of your T-nuts is vitally important. No word as to whether the orientation of the previous 40 minutes worth of T-nuts mattered. The parts store says "OpenBuilds Tee Nuts are reversible. You can flip them upside down if you need more threading..." but maybe that's only sometimes true?
• 00:41:30 See 00:39:55.
• 00:55:00 Make your own measurements and do your own math. The halfway point on a 962mm rail is 481mm or 18.93701", not 19.5". That being said, spacing here isn't especially critical.
• 01:07:49 Every time you hear the phrase "turn the machine", finish your drink and start another.
  
• [ Note here reads "F*** STEP 14!", no time or explanation given. ] Possibly related to said turning of machine, and pronounced lack of the additional workspace advised in Tip #1.]
• 01:08:40 Every time you're told to do something it would've been easier to do immediately before being told to turn the machine around, slam the rest of your drink, and fling the bottle at the screen. Then take a break while you get a new drink and replacement screen. You do have a bunch of replacement screens, right? Did I forget that in the tool list?
  
• 01:12:15 If you've been drinking along at home, close your eyes for the next five seconds or so. You'll get dizzy, and I'm not entirely sure what was being shown.
• 01:13:45 Yeah, better close 'em again.
  
• 01:17:20 My notes here say that 10mm screws are too long to be used where shown, and will dig into the back of the rail instead of properly clamping the drop-in T-nut. I just checked and this is not, in fact, true (the uprights do take 10mm screws in the drop-ins, with 8mm screws going into the gantry), but it is important to make sure that... actually, go read the tip I just added up top.
• 01:20:15 Spin the machine again. And again. And a few more times. Did I mention I was short on space and had to lift the entire, increasingly heavy and unbalanced, machine over my head each time it had to be turned?
  
• 01:27:46 Spoiler: You're going to have to hand-thread the leadscrews through the nut blocks on the Y & X axes now. Before you do, fast forward to Step 23 (even more spoilers!) where you'll learn that you'll then have to manually screw each of the axes all the way to one end. This is good to know in advance, because it's a lot harder to twist the screws once they're fully installed - especially when you're trying to simultaneously twist two screws a meter apart.
  
• 01:42:45 Step 23 - See here for those spoilers.
• 01:44:05 "So what I did for this machine, since we're going to be rotating it a lot..." Just put the drink down. Whatever's left in it isn't going to be enough - it's time to head to the bar. Preferably the sort they have in westerns where they just hand you the whole bottle. Also, this tip with the cardboard under the corners will probably be more useful about 36 minutes ago. By now that table's about as scratched as it's gonna get.
• 01:44:30 Self-with-much-forcible-assistance tapping screws. This is where I recommend you lube up. No, for the scre.. didn't we already do this joke? Is it any funnier this time? No? Screw it.
• ??:??:?? I don't have the time in my notes, but somewhere around here you finally discover the reason that one piece of 20x40x962mm V-rail has a tapped hole & screw in one end of it. This is going to be your ground screw. If it matters to your wiring plans, you'll probably want to decide where it's going to end up a little earlier in the process - likely somewhere around the 30-minute mark.
  
• 01:46:32 My spoilboard deviated so much from the plans that my notes are even vaguely relevant. It's also still not finished yet, which is even less relevant.
  
• Wiring Video My wiring was largely carried over from a previous build, and makes the spoilboard look positively stock. I still haven't started on mounting my limit switches or even bothered to unbag the drag chains.

As far as actual assembly time, I started Step 1 at 1:45am and wrapped up Step 24 at 3:45am. Somewhere around the midway point I lost a couple hours cursing and searching for the large chunks of extrusion that I hoped maybe I'd just misplaced somewhere, and then cursing a bit more. I may also have bagged up all the bubble wrap and then pulled it out flung it around the room several times, just in case I'd accidentally thrown away a half meter or so of C-beam without noticing.


-Bats
( fun fact: no alcohol was consumed during the course of this assembly. don't make the same mistake. )

 

Liked for being performance art. (Definition of "performance" and/or "art" is left to the viewer's discretion)

Some (out of order, I imagine, just like I read it) comments:

As luck would have it, the $4 Milwaukee 6ft keychain tape measure is bilingual, if anyone's in a pinch. Grab one while you're picking up an M5 tap.

Double-tapping on the left side of the screen in the YouTube app will take you back 15 seconds!

You know there's a GIF for that, right? There's always a GIF:

 

Wow bats, do you talk the way you write. If so it’s incredibly annoying. Time is precious and being succinct goes a long way when someone is looking for answers.

 

Look for the 2040 rail with the tapped end, and make sure that the threaded end goes to the back right when assembling. It is used to mount the cable chain when wiring

 

Wow, Rob, are you as pleasant to talk to as you are to read?

-Bats
( being succinct )

 

One out of two Rob-thumbs up!

(Fun fact: Last night was my third attempt at writing up feedback on the video, and, while longer & more rambling than planned, was the first one suitable for public consumption. To be fair to the other Rob, the original version, while having about twice as many timestamps, was far more succinct. It also featured far more profanity, and was deeply insulting to at least a couple people I actually have a lot of respect for. I prefer this version.)

Or just use one with Inches on it - the metric side is only used to give you the confidence of having the tools the video says you're going to need. Or make your own measurements. Or if you're really in a pinch, you can even use a piece of string for most of it - the only measurement I remember that wasn't some easy fraction of a rail's length was "two inches from the end" when placing the router mount (and it missed my notes, but was another point of frustration as there was no explanation for why it was placed there).

As a famous wise man once said: "D'oh!"

(but I stand by my recommendation for providing bookmarks to steps - that's still a lot of tapping if you're at 1:20:00 and realize there was something back somewhere around around the first half hour that you really need to check whether you got right)

I need you on my GIF staff. The hours are long, and the pay is nonexistent, but it's great experience! Actually, strike that. It's a terrible experience.


-Bats
( also: You're going to need a bigger lazy susan )

 

Thanks guys, going to get rolling on it tonight. Everything looks to be here, going to pick up a tap while I’m out and some kerosene so we don’t freeze to death.

 

Taps are useful, but not freezing to death is, generally speaking, more useful.

Good luck with both.

(fun fact: kerosene is also a recommended cleaning product and cutting fluid for certain metals and situations!)


-Bats
( fun fact: kerosene is also recommended for accidentally burning hair off of heads and eyebrows off of faces! )

 

Thanks folks! Got going on it a little bit, this thing sure is well made. Hopefully I’ll make more progress tomorrow, got started a little late today.

 

Would that 1.5KW spindle compatible with LEAD CNC and able to mount directly to slots using t-nuts? goo.gl/8KxfrS

Also the Z-axis can hold that 3.5kg, 4KG to give a margin? I'm aiming for high torque motors. What max weight i can use safe?
PS: I'm from europe

 

I enjoyed that write up because that was exactly how I felt while building it. 1 step forward then 5 back after he tells you something else, or doesn't say anything at all. Extremely frustrating but it finally got put together after about 2 weeks of waiting for new nut blocks that the lead screw would go thru.

 

I'm running a round 80mm 110V 1.5kW spindle on mine, and, while I'm still trying to finalize the mounting, I love what I've seen of it working so far. I don't think I'd be comfortable trusting the weight of it a machine with a full-width gantry, but I don't even know how mine compares to the 220V round spindles, never mind the square ones, and I didn't see one listed (the 7.5kg at the bottom presumably including the VFD).

It would require a custom mount of some sort, though. This image shows the base as being 94mm wide with 81mm between centers on the screw holes, and the C-beam that forms your Z axis is only 80mm wide with 60mm between the centers of the widest slots. At the simplest, you could just make a 94mm wide plate that bolts onto the C-beam with tapped holes for the spindle to screw into, but, as I'm discovering (although with an entirely different mount design), you'd probably want to put a little more thought into it, and make sure you've got something that allows you to fine tune the angle. Crooked spindles make for an ugly finish.

Mine's somewhere around 4kg (also using a high torque stepper - I haven't tried it otherwise) and the Z axis is perfectly fine - it could probably take a 2.2kW spindle too, maybe even something heavier. The problem is your X axis. C-beams are pretty sturdy, but if you put a big weight in the middle of a long beam, it's going to start to flex and/or twist (before someone jumps in here to point out that technically that'll happen with any weight on any length beam, I'll point out exactly the same thing). The question is how much weight will cause how much flexing/twisting, and how much flexing/twisting is going to be acceptable for your purposes.

The uprights at the ends & the wheels they run on will also enter into the equation (and, again, probably more than the Z axis itself) - although those would be the same on your machine as on mine. I have yet to get mine mounted securely enough to even try making any measurements, though, so I can't help with any empirical results (for all I know mine may be causing too much flex to tolerate... or it might not be enough to notice), and I'm not enough of an engineer to give you any theoretical numbers either.

This is a question I kept asking, and could never get a solid answer to. In part because there isn't any specific threshold for "safe" - just a spectrum of deviation from some ideal and unachievable "perfect", and how much deviation is acceptable depends on what you're doing and what tolerances you need. Probably also in part because coming up with hard numbers means doing lots of hard math and there aren't enough people here who do that sort of thing recreationally.

Having briefly put together a full size machine and not-very-scientifically leaned on the gantry to feel it flex & wiggle, I suspect I wouldn't be happy with the results of a 4kg spindle hanging on it... but if you're planning on lower precision work, you might be perfectly content with it. Short of convincing an engineer to give you some hard numbers, the best test I saw suggested was to build the machine, put the Z axis in the middle of the gantry with a dial indicator on the bottom of it, and pull on it with a cheap fish scale to about 4kg. That should give you a reasonably accurate picture of how much/how little the weight will do to your accuracy, and from there you can decide whether it's a good fit for your plans.

Of course, that means building the machine, testing it, and then waiting for shipping from China before you can actually start using it - and that is almost as hard as just doing the math.

Yeah, and you have 220V on tap and a system of weights and measures that actually makes sense. *grumble*



-Bats
( witty comments lost due to hard drive failure. time for playing with CNC also lost due to hard drive failure. )

 

So here’s another question as I move along. On the z axis, how much resistance should be on the lead screw, like to turn it by hand while it’s attached to the motor? It feels kind of tight, but I haven’t messed with a screw driven machine before. Just want to make sure it’s good to go before I go any further.

 

So, after spending some time with the LEAD CNC and making a few cuts I've started to notice the flex in the X gantry. I'm coming from a 1000x1000 OX and there was a material amount of flex in the X axis. I need to find a way to measure the flex and the time to do it. It would be good if OpenBuilds would offer some data for tests performed on the stress/flex characteristics of their kits. Flex is most noticed while stationary and applying slight pressure on the Z beam. I can't tell just yet if it's the X c-beam or the Y-axis setup that is contributing most to the flex or maybe a combination of all of it.

When I made the decision to upgrade to the LEAD I considered options such as the Shapeoko XXL and Stepcraft as well as other similarly sized consumer/pro grade kits. I'm hoping I made the right choice. I guess time will tell.

If anyone is familiar with Russ Sadler work on Chinese Laser tuning (see youtube) and his methodical approach to discovery and measurement it would be awesome if someone had the time and inclination to provide a similar treatment to this kit. I have little of the former and rudimentary skills for the latter.

Rob

 

If you're trying to turn it by hand with the motor powered, it should take an absolutely ridiculous amount of force to turn it. If you're trying to do it with the motor off, then you should be able to twist it without too much trouble. Plastic/nylon/delrin (and whatever OB uses) nut blocks can be pretty stiff when they're new, and the settings of the wheel eccentrics & anti-backlash nut setscrew could potentially make them even stiffer, so don't be surprised if it still takes a bit of effort to turn - just so long as it's a smooth resistance and not grinding, binding up, or rigidly stopped. You'll be surprised how much resistance those motors (even the low-torque ones) can overcome without noticing - a couple times on my previous machine I'd shut off the power only to find that I wasn't even able to turn a screw without clamping some vicegrips to the shaft for leverage, while the motor had been driving it without breaking a sweat. If you find that the screw looks/feels like it's trying to bend into funny shapes, though, there's probably something jammed somewhere - stop and find out what it is before it turns into a pretzel.


-Bats
( not that I've ever bent a leadscrew into a pretzel by running it when an axis was jammed solid. at least not this week. )