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The BEE and ME

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Colin Mccourt, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
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    I would not waste my time, whole house vac systems are not "grounded" and they use pvc pipe, my shop vac hose is not grounded..
    You really can't ground plastic anyway unless it's special conductive type (not sewer pipe) . There has never been a fire confirmed to be caused from static discharge of a pvc pipe, even myth-busters tried using a sand blaster... This is an unfortunate internet myth IMO.
    Gary
     
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  2. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Not worried about fire risk - a few people have reported electronics being upset by static - an earthed piece of metal in contact with the plastic pipe will drain any static build up - may not be a problem, but aluminium cyclone dust separator is same price as plastic one.
    Alex.
     
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  3. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    Fire a few over I'll give them a go, or wait until I'm over and I'll pop by for a chat.
    Regards
    C
     
  4. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    PS - I once had a job in a furniture factory where the dust extraction system exploded - it was blamed on static but personally I think the guy operating the belt sander saw the foreman coming and threw his cigarette end in it!
    Alex. :D
     
  5. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    I'm still going to make the Cyclone dust extraction unit...as soon as I gather the parts together then I will see if it needs any further attention in that regard.
    Regards
    C
     
  6. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    Harking back to my Leeds United football crest attempt. I know with the way I've set this up that it's going to take a while to mill. I probably won't be able to find the time to do it all in one go, if I wanted to watch the process. I can probably break that down into two or three stints.
    I have never performed a mid-job drill bit change nor a left/front corner XYZ start point, both of which I will need to do for this piece. What is the best way to find the XYZ starting point without using a probe. As for obvious reasons I won't be able to use the centre start point
    Regards
    C
     
  7. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    In machine co-ordinates do exactly what you would do with a probe - jog the machine until the bit just touches on Y axis - make a note of Y coordinate (minus 1/2 diameter of bit). Repeat for ☓ axis. Find Z zero in the usual way. Jog the machine to the coordinates you worked out. Switch to workplace coordinates. Set workplace zero.
    Alex.
     
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  8. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    When you say touches the Y & X axis above @Alex Chambers , can this be anywhere on that line or has it to be directly on the corner point (the Z-axis I'm fine with) sorry newbie question again
    Regards
    C

    PS is it worth investing in a probe or is it just the same with no time gained.
     
  9. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    You only need to change the bit, and jog it to the correct Z home height (or use a probe if you have one). Not sure about setting Workplace coordinates manually, looks like the Duet has some special control GUI; I have a G92 in the program that automatically does this, so I can't forget to do it or make a mistake. Geoff
     
  10. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Could be anywhere on each axis, but easier in the corner - then you haven't got far to jog for the next one.
    Alex.
    PS @GeoffH is talking about after tool change you need to reset Z zero without resetting Y and ☓.
     
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  11. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    Even though I change from a quarter to an eighth inch bit, would I not need to recalibrate all axis?
     
  12. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    No, and don't jog X or Y at the Tool-change, only Z. Geoff
     
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  13. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    You are setting work zero at the centre of the tool. So to change tool return to work zero, raise Z axis, change tool, lower Z axis to workpiece, set work co-ordinates - ☓ and Y have not changed - only Z.
    Alex.
     
  14. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    Yes, and the grbl(mm) post-processor for Cut2d / Vcarve always returns to the Home position (Work zero), so no need to do that. Geoff
     
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  15. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Didn't know that @GeoffH - when you say "home =work zero" do you mean front left of machine? MACHINE CO-ORDINATES zero is front left with Duet, HOME where the limit switches are is back right.
    Alex. :confused:
     
  16. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    In Vcarve you can set the Workpiece Coordinates zero to any position but normally you might choose one of the corners or centre of the Workpiece. The Machine zero isn't defined or known in Vcarve, only the Workpiece. This is at the end of post-processing

    begin FOOTER

    "M5"
    "G0[ZH]"
    "G0[XH][YH]"
    "M30"

    So this stops the Spindle, Rapids in Z to ZH(Home), then Rapids in X Y to XH YH (Home), End of Program. The Home is Workpiece coordinates, not Machine. Geoff
     
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  17. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Thanks @GeoffH - I wanted to check that what I had said fitted how vectric software works - it gets very confusing when "home" can mean two different places.
    Alex. :confused:
     
  18. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    By the way, I don't have any limit switches on my Machine, so I have no concept of Machine coordinates. Maybe this is a difference between 3d printing and Subtractive Machining operation, in the latter we have to know exactly where the workpiece is, in 3d printing it's not so important, as long as it's on the bed. So I think for 3d printing you would normally start the process from a Machine zero, whereas for subtractive machining from a Workpiece zero. Geoff
     
  19. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    My only previous experience of nc maching was over 30 years ago when the school where I was head of the technology department acquired a Denford mill programmed in g code (text editor) in absolute machine co-ordinates. My 3d printer starts from machine zero and moves to the position on the bed where the "workpiece" is - I haven't looked at the gcode but suspect it uses machine zero as its reference point. I haven't fully explored how the workbee and duet work together, but things do get very confusing if you don't "home" the machine on power up - the machine has no idea where it is or where its edges are.
    Alex
     
  20. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    Wow, thanks guys, so much info to sift through but I think you've both answered my initial query.
    I'm off to work shortly, but I think the best thing for me to do is to trial all the above on a smaller job (coaster) before relaying it to a larger piece.
    Thanks, Guy's you've been an excellent help all the way through this learning process and again it has been very much appreciated
    Regards
    C
     
  21. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    Hi Alex and Colin, I'm just hoping that I haven't confused you both. The Duet and Oooznest comes from a 3d Printing background, so I understand why it may be the way it is?? I'm assuming that at some stage you must manually tell Duet where the Workpiece is on the bed, because the first thing in the grbl gcode program is a rapid move to the Workpiece Home position. In my situation I clamp the workpiece to the bed, jog the tool to the Workpiece Home position (lower left of the workpiece is my favourite), set the tool Z height, then all I have to do is to run the Program. Geoff
     
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  22. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Yes, clamp workpiece, jog machine to chosen origin, set workplace coordinates zero.
    Alex.
     
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  23. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    That sounds the same Alex:thumbsup:, except "set workplace coordinates zero" is in my gcode program with G92. Sorry to both for any confusion I may have introduced:).Geoff
     
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  24. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    What I don't know is whether @Colin Mccourt's software also puts that G92 code in. Either way I think he has to set his work coordinates before he runs his Gcode.
    Alex.
    PS the Duet betrays its printer origins when you run gcode it asks if you want to print it.
     
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  25. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    I think Colin is running the standard grbl(mm) post-processor which doesn't have a G92. It has a Rapid Move to the Workpiece Home Position, so unless he has set the workplace coordinates zero in the Control, it could move anywhere:(. Geoff
     
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  26. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    I have only used the centre of the workpiece as Work zero up until the present. Its fine for some jobs that use either one tool or does not mill the centre point away. Hence wanting to set my work point zero on the piece to the left front corner that wont be milled away.
    I measure and mark the centre point, manually jog the machine on X & Y axis over the point then lower the Z axis (bit inserted) onto a piece of cigarette paper until it just holds it. Then I press set work zero on the Duet GUI. Next I import the G Code (gbrl(mm) then select an run the code (before I can do anything the machine has to be homed to the machine Home position as set in config G)...I haven't looked a G Code yet to determine what each line of text actually does...That's for the future
    Regards
    C
     
  27. GeoffH

    GeoffH Journeyman
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    Sounds good Colin, so if you have set Z10 for example as the Home Z in Cut2D
    upload_2019-3-18_18-27-41.png

    the first move in your program should be a Rapid(G0) to Z10 - then everything will be as expected, so forget I even mentioned G92 :)Geoff
     
  28. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    Home all axes first (I think that's what you are saying anyway). I don't know vectric software, but I assume you set an origin when you do the cam which is where you set your workplace coordinates zero.
    Alex.
    PS I think I should drop out of this conversation as I don't know the vectric stuff and risk causing confusion - take more notice of @GeoffH @Colin Mccourt (and post a pic of the football shield when it's finished.
    Alex. :duh:
     
    #328 Alex Chambers, Mar 18, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2019
  29. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    Yes @Alex Chambers , that's what I meant to say.
    Please don't exclude yourself from any conversation, we are all learning, confusion is just part of that
    Regards
    C
     
  30. Colin Mccourt

    Colin Mccourt Journeyman
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    I will surely, @Alex Chambers
    Probably be at the weekend though (I'm in Dublin tomorrow). I hope it's going to work. All the tool paths are done and the video shows no problems.so fingers crossed. The only problem is my frustration at me not knowing enough about feeds and speeds. I don't want to rush things and break something, I think I'm probably being too conservative. I'm guessing that this is an art form lol
     

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