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Centrifugal disc finish machine

Discussion in 'Concepts and Ideas' started by LoSpo, Apr 16, 2021.

  1. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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  2. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    I'm sure there is interest here on the forum for seeing one built just don't recall it ever having been done. Give us your thoughts and show us what you have to work with and it's highly possible we can guide you in the right direction.
     
  3. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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    Thank you.
    I have a 220v motor, a voltage regulator (to set motor's rpm).
    I thinked about modify a kitchen mixer but I cannot understand how to make the barrel and the disk.

    I have a 3d fdm printer, a resin 3d printer and a 3 axis CNC with 400x65mm working area. I also have a laser cut machine
    I can work brass and silver, with the laser I can cut up to 0.5mm with the cnc up to 2.5mm.
     
  4. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    How much capacity are you looking for and what do you intend to finish in this?
     
  5. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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    In my dreams I'm looking for 5lt barrel, but I think 3lt will be good too.
    I would like to finish some things I print and cast in aluminium and brass.
    I would use stones for rough and wood for finish.
     
  6. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    What's the advantage of the rotary unit over a traditional vibratory option? It appears to generate the same tumbling action, and other than component longevity I'm not sure I see the purpose of the higher-complexity option- it's much easier to put a bucket on a crankshaft than it is to make a relatively high tolerance rotary union of two matching compound curved surfaces.
     
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  7. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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    The rotatory il better than the vibratory, because it finish really better the pieces.
    And because the time, a rotary machine need from 1/10 to 1/30 of the time, what you do in 1 day with a vibratory you can do in 1 hour with rotary.
     
  8. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    Ok, just looked into it a little bit. Not sure the finishes are necessarily any better, depending on media, but the "high-energy" thing for very short cycle times is intriguing. Looks a bit messier than vibratory, but we deal with that with resin printers vs FDM printers and live to tell the tale just fine.

    So basically you have to build a spindle that can take fairly high speeds, I'm guessing they run at about 3000-5000rpm (can't find a definitive speed range from manufacturers on my cursory search)- a piece of chrome shaft and a couple pillow block bearings *might* work, depending on tolerances and ratings, and have that belted to a motor at the bottom (none of them seem to be direct drive, for some reason?) and a flange to take the platter at the top. The frame to hold the bearings and the top barrel section has to be one part, both very accurate and with zero flex; maybe a weldment, if you built a jig to hold all the pieces of steel tubing. Looks like commercial machines use castings, which is obviously pretty difficult for DIY.

    The top barrel seems to just be a urethane liner on a sheet steel ring, which is relatively straightforward- if I were doing the "jagged" liner with the teeth around the outside, I'd print a bunch of pieces to glue together and make a silicone mold, which is the easiest way of doing accurate and repeatable urethane parts. I'd do the same thing for the curved bottom piece with some low-profile "vanes" to help move media to the outside.

    With a slightly flexible urethane choice, you may have a little more leeway on the mating surfaces- it might be possible to continuously lubricate the interface between the two urethane parts with the tumbling fluid, I'm not sure though. I'd guess it would probably be possible to add some kind of removable and adjustable lathe-like cutter on both the edge of the rotating platter and the fixed frame, so that you can cut both urethane components to a very precise diameter and finish using the machine itself.

    Of course if you were building a very small one, the whole thing could be 3D printed, but I don't think it would be as effective as larger diameters and would probably need a much higher speed, which is itself a rabbit hole of tolerances, bearings, heat, radial forces, etc.

    Then the whole thing needs to be able to pivot- barrel, platter, shaft, motor and all- to dump out everything to be screened, doesn't seem as convenient to just pick parts out of while running like a vibratory unit. That's a pretty straightforward part though, just another couple of pillow block bearings and a simple frame, could even be wood as long as it's fairly accurate and solid/heavy enough to take the running forces.

    Personally I'd probably try to run it with a VFD and a 3-phase 3600rpm motor, maybe 2-3HP should be sufficient? That would be perfect for the soft starts and low-speed operations like insert trimming.
     
  9. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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    @Rob you right, it's all about the media, i can tell you more if you are interested.
    The spindle is regulated (depends the media you use) by a potentiometer and the speed is between 180 adn 250 rpm.
    I know the exact speed because i work with a big turbo machine.

    My original plans was to buid a "barrel" with 3d printer, one half per time, gluing toghether and then print the disc. My main troubles are:
    - how can i build a spindle?
    - how can i regulate the space between the disc and the barrel?

    The second question is hard, because that space should be between 0.1 and 0.3 mm (to prevent the media to get stuck)
     
  10. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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  11. Rob Taylor

    Rob Taylor Master
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    That seems very slow for a "high energy" machine, even at a foot or two diameter, but at least it explains the gearing/belting then! If you used a 1700rpm motor you could probably just timing belt at a straight 8:1 reduction and use a VFD for the rest of it (I assume the potentiometer is connected to a VFD, somewhere, because basic chopper controls cut a lot of power away from the motor).

    (At only 100-300rpm, that would definitely work- hydraulic tube would work as well for a hollow version)

    They flow the fluid backwards against spring pressure and use a hollow spindle shaft instead as the drain. This allows both positive pressure against the abrasive particles and a continuous hydrostatic bearing surface for the disc itself. It makes sense and would be relatively straightforward to DIY, but it would need some experimentation with the amount of spring pressure as well as the pump flow and pressure ratings.
     
  12. LoSpo

    LoSpo New
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    Thank you so much, @Rob, but i need a little more, i cannot imagine the machine itself, i need some deltailed instruction, because i am not so skilled.
    I think that this is a good way, but i need more, sorry for my poor skills.
    If you want to know more i work every day with a big version of these machines, feel free to ask anything you nedd.
    Thank you for everithing.
     

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