Welcome to Our Community

Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.

C-Bot

Discussion in '3D printers' started by Carl Feniak, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
    @craftygeek, as far as fans go for filament cooling, I'd picked up a pair of generic 40mm ones... I'm guessing they put out 4cfm each. But since I'm running a Volcano nozzle that has over 3x the volume output of my rep1 (who's cooling fan is around 8cfm), my prints aren't getting cooled enough.
    Figured I'd go big, so have a pair of these on order:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/121440135582
    20cmf each. Not sure, may lift my machine off the ground, but I figured in my case I need to get a lot more airflow to cool down the 1mm nozzle worth of plastic coming out.
    For cooling the Rumba board stepper drivers, the standard ones I mentioned above seem fine so far.
     
  2. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    That is some serious fan! Nice print, looks good.
     
    #842 Carl Feniak, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
  3. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    149
    If those fans are anything like the ones we have in some of our servers, you better order some ear plugs too. :)


     
  4. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    A couple thoughts/observations on your blog comments:
    250°C is very hot for PLA, 220°C is often referred to as the top of the range... for a normal hot end. You are using a volcano hot end and need to process a lot more material per second (amazing that you did that size of a print so fast). What I am trying to say is that your fan issues may be related to your high print temp, which may be related to your extruder warming issue. What may be necessary in your case is to switch to a greg wade style geared extruder instead of a direct drive. For example: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:678833 or http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:169990
    Then you may be able to cut back on your print temp and reduce your cooling requirements.

    On the other hand, the volcano may need those higher temps and reducing them at those print rates may cause the filament to strip on the drive pulley gear.
    Food for thought.
     
  5. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
    @Elmo Clarity : I may have gone too big on the fans, but I figured I don't have to drive them at full power. May as well have a big gas pedal if you need it though.... :p This is all just an experiment, right? ;)

    @Carl Feniak : Thank for those links, I'll look into that. Maybe it'll help with the extruder stepper temp issues I've been having.

    Print temp: Yah, 250 is waaaaay (too) high for PLA, totally agreed. On my rep1 I can do 195->210 normally depending on the filament. I've been doing a ton of print testing on this new bot though, and I'm finding if I print lower than 250 (based on my 1mm Volcano nozzle @ 45mm/sec) I won't get good layer adhesion: My prints turn into Slinkies when done. My guess is that the filament, at time of extrusion from nozzle, may not actually be 250, based on extrusion speed. If I use a lower temp, the filament is much more opaque, and just won't stick to the previous layer. From 250-260 it gets nice and translucent and happily sticks to the stuff below it. If I drop my print speed down I can lower my temp... but who wants to print slow :p In fact I've tried going up to 60mm/sec, but even at 260 deg I start loosing layer adhesion again. Can you daisy-chain volcano's together? :p

    Basically, I'm learning that printing with a big volcano nozzle is a totally different experience than a normal .4mm, so everything I knew about temps and settings is sort of thrown out the window and I need to figure it out all over again. Very little info on the web I've been able to find... so it's all just trial-and-error right now...
     
    #845 AK Eric, Jul 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2015
    Guilhaume, Carl Feniak and sheffdog like this.
  6. sheffdog

    sheffdog New
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    15
    Thanks for sharing all your volcano wisdom AK Eric, there is not much info on the interwebs about how to print with it. This should give me a big leg up when I get my volcano setup.
     
  7. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
  8. AK Eric

    AK Eric Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2015
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    129
    Will be interesting to see how it prints: I'm starting to notice the shake on mine, with the toolhead that high up there (based on my 2' build height): I'm currently trying to figure out ways how to both bolt mine to the wall and the table its on: Just 'holding firmly onto the frame' while printing lessens the shaking substantially, so I think a wall mount should help quite a bit.
     
  9. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Yeah, soon to be added: cathedral style trusses, jk
     
  10. adamcooks

    adamcooks Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2014
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    65
    Mine is pretty solid now, I added two rails below the gantry sliders. I also contemplated acrylic walls to stiffen / and insulate. I had never heard of the bolt it to the wall route until I got into lurking on the delta group. Jetguy did add diagonals to his 4' cube coreXY.
     
  11. Lozza50

    Lozza50 New
    Builder

    Joined:
    May 20, 2014
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1
    Looks an excellent build I have skimmed through all the material to find the cost of parts to build . Could you help with a rough price please . In US $ is ok and I will convert to the poor AUD .
    Cheers
     
  12. trublu832

    trublu832 Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2015
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    65
    I have almost all of my parts in and the total will be under $600. I didn't always go for the cheapest parts, just shopped around and sourced from various places.
     
  13. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Also, check out the BOM excel sheet in the files section. It is certainly dated, but you can use it as a template when sourcing your parts and update it as you locate the best/cheapest source.
     
  14. Andre Dorsey

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ive been using a smoothie board with mine and im having some print issues. Any of you smoothie guys mind sharing your config so i can compare it to mine? FWIW building this thing has been a blast and i'll try to post pictures of mine relatively soon!
     
  15. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    I finally got my parts from robotdigg. Let me tell you, $5 for "expedited shipping" and it took over 3 weeks to get the handful of parts. Next time I'll just pay extra to get them domestically.

    Turns out with this linked system I don't have to do any sort of counterweight or anything to keep the bed from falling down. I used an 848 belt, 1x 20T, 2x 40T pulleys anticipating that I'd mount the drive motor in the back, but it was too crowded back there so I moved it to the front. I'm going to order a longer belt to get the lead screws more toward the back. Gizmo Dorks changed their formula for the fluorescent blue color now so it is a darker blue which I do not like as much. They say it glows more in UV light, but I haven't tested it yet.
    [​IMG]

    The 40T 8mm bore pulley just sits on a precision shim sitting on a F608ZZ flange bearing in a modified version of Carl's motor mount. The mount doesn't need to be this big but I fail at 123D and can't seem to figure out how to scale it down, it keeps telling me I can't push/pull the surfaces.
    [​IMG]

    Wiring is starting to get organized, at least the smoothieboard is mounted. There's a Raspberry Pi running Octoprint mounted on the back side, powered with 5V from the Z max endstop header.
    [​IMG]

    I came today not to post pictures, but to ask a dumb question: What do I attach to my filament spool to attach it to this nice spool mount? I just have a screwdriver jammed in it, but I bet there's some sort of nice spool holder I can print, right? Halp!
     
    AK Eric likes this.
  16. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    149
    @CapnBry

    Here is a spool holder I hacked together from parts of other spool holders. There are lots of them out there. Just have to find the one you like.

    I have a question for you though. You say you are using a smoothie board, which I am using too. You also have OctoPrint hooked up to it. Have you played around any with the web stuff on the smoothie board? I haven't yet but wanted to find out what others think of it who have played around with it.
     

    Attached Files:

  17. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    Thanks guys, I already have printed and attached the "C-Bot Roll Support" from Carl's design so I was looking for the piece that mates with that instead of just a generic spool holder. I'm really spoiled by my i3's spool holder which is a frame with F608ZZ flanged bearings on the bottom that hold any size spool I've used so far, unwinds with incredibly low friction, and never has pulled off sideways.

    The webui on the smoothieboard is a novelty. You can use it to do some basic movement, home an axis, type a one-line G-code command (with response too, like an M119 endstop query) and tell it to print a gcode file already on the SD card. Uploading a gcode file through it will remind you of a 1995 MODEM because you literally get like 10KB/s. Uploading a couple megabyte gcode file takes several minutes.

    OctoPrint has the same functions but also has the integrated GCode viewer so I can do a quick spot check of the output before I print. I also have OctoPrint doing my slicing (via Slic3r on another machine) so I upload an stl file and I have my gcode in about 12-20 seconds. The downside is that I can't load multiple objects onto the build plate at once, although Slic3r now supports uploading to OctoPrint directly from their UI. The webcam is a nice addition too to be able to be sitting on the couch and check on the print.
     
  18. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    I've attached the cones I use/designed, but there are lots online too. Here are some other options:
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:219667
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:767334

    Also, for easy tightening by hand:
    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:189211
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Looks great! Glad that modification is working. Can you share the 123D file of your lead screw mounts? I'll see if I can simply it a bit an add it as a modification option to the file set.
     
  20. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    149
    Carl, question on the Z-bar ends that connect to the vertical rails. Which side should the slotted holes be on? The inside or outside? Or does it not matter? I'm hoping for does not matter or inside. :)
     
  21. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Doesn't matter, just be consistent One side or the other might make installation and tightening against the weight of the bed easier, but since the wheels are under a torque load, a slotted hole will be loaded (versus an idler) in any orientation you choose.
     
  22. Elmo Clarity

    Elmo Clarity Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2015
    Messages:
    505
    Likes Received:
    149
    Thanks. I had just taken it apart to move the lead screw nuts to the arms. Didn't think about which side the slots should be on. Just made sure they were on the same side. They weren't before I took it apart. Just didn't want to have to do that again. :)
     
  23. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    You bet! As you can see I just removed the motor screw holes, changed the hole to be 22.1mm for the bearing and 25.3 for the flange. Thickened the top so it would be the same thickness as the bearing and sloped the inside bit so it can print without support. The bearing part can easily be 5-9mm slimmer in every dimension so I was trying to press it in but after about 10 minutes I decided that the extra 10 cents worth of plastic wasn't worth my time. The part would be a little stronger if it were smaller but I tested the first one I printed and it can really take a lot of ton of force before breaking down so not a big deal (the ears crack off first, so not a catastrophic failure).

    Sorry about having to upload a ZIP, the forums won't take a 123dx file!

    And now I see what everyone was talking about with the "cone" for the spool mount. I thought everyone was referring to a solid cone used solely to prevent the spool from falling off. Now I see it is a cone-shaped hub with bearings! I've printed off a couple and that takes care of that. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
     

    Attached Files:

  24. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    All you need to do is preload the bearings a bit in order to provide a little resistance. This is done simply by tightening the M8 nut. You can then test the resistance by hand.
    @CapnBry if I recall from your pics, your roll bracket is flipped. That small lip where the 8mm rod goes is supposed to contact the inner race of the bearing.
    However, if you forget to do this:
    IMG_1325.JPG
     
    Mark Carew likes this.
  25. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    Wow that's incredible attention to detail. When I went to install the cones last night I realized that the design was not symmetrical and flipped the bracket over so the shim bit would contact the bearing race. Is I was putting the rod in I said "I'll need to get a shim for th... wait a second!"

    That drive gear do you have on your extruder? I bought a cheap MK8 when I was buying all the other parts from China and I am getting slippage. I'm trying to figure out if the hobbing is just garbage (it doesn't appear to really be cutting into the filament at all) or the radius is wrong or I messed up the extruder design when I made the holes bigger to accept the quick disconnect fittings I had.
     
  26. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
    Fair to say that you've already tightened up the idler spring to give it more biting force? Also, are you sure the filament is skipping and not the motor skipping steps backwards?
    Mine are similar to these:
    http://www.ebay.ca/itm/2pcs-Brass-R...-3D-printer-/171804792029?hash=item28005d14dd
    Though I got them on ebay auction for about 3.50 USD each. Mine are the 3mm filament version, though they make a 1.75mm specific version now. If the dimensions of the "hub" portion is different than mine, you may need to flip it around on the stepper shaft to align with the filament path.
     
  27. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    Yeah I've got a pretty hefty spring on there and I've got the force such that I have concerns about breaking the little arm off. I inserted a piece of virtual filament in the 123D model and it appears to intersect where the gear should be, but I need to take off the gear and measure it to see if it is right. It does appear to be just the filament slipping but it is hard to tell because it only slips a little at a time and the gear is so tiny it is hard to see if it is moving. The bearing definitely snaps back a bit. It still prints but it happens every 10-20 seconds when printing at full speed so I'm sure it is affecting the quality of the print. I just wanted to make sure we were using similar dimensioned gears and the model wasn't designed for like a 8mm diameter gear and I was putting a 6mm gear in.

    I was thinking about building one of Airtrippers extruders with the load cell in it that can tell me exactly how much force it is trying to push. Seems like a fun little waste of time!
     
  28. mgagnier

    mgagnier New
    Builder

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are there additional 3D files/instructions for filament feeding system? I was looking through the C-Bot assembly guide and the list of files I have but I can't find anything.

    Thanks for your help!
     
  29. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2014
    Messages:
    654
    Likes Received:
    246
  30. CapnBry

    CapnBry Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    100
    Likes Received:
    54
    So here's a closeup of my "MK8" extruder gear which I got China-cheap.
    [​IMG]
    It has more flat part than bitey part so I am guessing that's why my filament is slipping.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice