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Upgrading the “old” C-Beam machine

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016.

Upgrading the C-Beam machine

Upgrading the C-Beam machine

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016.

So we have new plates, stronger motors, belt drive reduction, but what should we do with them? In this article you might find the answer you were looking for as we took an “old” C-Beam machine and started to upgrade the X/Z body and added more torque and precision to the Z-axis.

C-Beam gantry plate X/Z body high torque XL reduction 2:1 for NEMA23 machine Upgrade OpenBuilds
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  1. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Ronald van Arkel published a new build:

    Read more about this build...
     
    #1 Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016
    Paul Stoller and Tom Allen like this.
  2. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    Awesome, Those are the same mods to the Z-axis I am planning ( belt reduction and double wide plate. ) Looks like it came out great; we are running the same router to boot.. Can not wait to place my next order with the PS. :thumbsup: Thanks for sharing.
     
    #2 Kyo, May 24, 2016
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  3. Moag

    Moag Veteran
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    Now that's going to be one strong C-Beam Machine Ronald, liking the Y axis mod, very clever. :thumbsup: Top Job.
     
    #3 Moag, May 24, 2016
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  4. Mark Carew

    Mark Carew OpenBuilds Team
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    Monster strong! Well done :thumbsup: Ronald
    Looking forward to seeing the first cut in action
    Thank you for sharing.
     
    #4 Mark Carew, May 24, 2016
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  5. Rick 2.0

    Rick 2.0 OpenBuilds Team
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    Nice work. Only suggestion I could offer would be inverting the screws on the Y-axis plates and turning them downward. This will make attachment of the build plate easier.
     
    #5 Rick 2.0, May 24, 2016
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  6. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hi guys,

    Thank you for your nice comments!

    @Rick 2.0, the build plate won't be put back. There will be a 1/2" aluminum plate for table, and I've to see if I'll use another layer of 1/8" acrylic sheet. I'm still green when it comes to cutting aluminum :oops:. The table will be perforated where the lock nuts are ;). To give you an idea of the height of the screws sticking out, it's just under 9mm (8.8). I've still to explain my Y axis setup later this week.

    -Ronald
     
    #6 Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016
  7. Jonathon Duerig

    Jonathon Duerig Journeyman
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    This looks really great.

    I'm curious about one thing. The other day I was browsing the shop and saw the high torque motors and the reducing belt that you use for the Z-axis. I was wondering when I would want to use one vs. just using a coupler. You use the reducing belt for the z-axis and not for the other axes. Why is this? Is the extra torque of the reducing belt more useful on the Z-axis for plunge cuts? Does it slow down the x and y axes too much?

    In general, it is often hard to tell from the store front when I would want to pick one kind of thing over another. So any insight here would be of great use to me.

    -D
     
    #7 Jonathon Duerig, May 24, 2016
  8. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hello @Jonathon Duerig,

    I've still have to play with cutting harder materials like non-ferrous metals (the soft ones that is ;)). But, what I've seen is that the Z-axis needs more holding torque than most of us would expect. It seems that, when plunging hard/steep, the Z axis bounced up, even pushing the stepper motor a few steps back. Adding more weight to the Z-axis will help but it can be done with the belt reduction as well; note this is not proven but I thought there would be some logic. I might put reductions on the other axis too, for now it's just to demonstrate what can be done with the new parts.

    Upgrades are relatively inexpensive as 90% of the already own parts are being re-used. For me only the build plate had to go.

    -Ronald
     
    #8 Ronald van Arkel, May 24, 2016
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  9. snokid

    snokid Journeyman
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    looking good, for us owners of the c-beam it's great to see what people think up!!!
     
    #9 snokid, May 24, 2016
  10. Paul Stoller

    Paul Stoller Journeyman
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    I love this, I had already finished the mechanicals of my build but I can already see that I'll likely end up rebuilding multiple parts by the time I finish the entire build. Now the question becomes do I bite the bullet and just update the build to be 1000mm wide as well.
     
    #10 Paul Stoller, May 24, 2016
  11. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hello guys,

    I'm still working on the wire diagram for the control panel. I thought I would make it in one day but I'm just using AutoCAD to draw this stuff so it will take some time. I'll include a drawing of the control panel (in some NEMA housing), limit switches with pull-up resistor and capacitor, all the other buttons. The PWM for the spindle I will leave out for now.

    The table drawing is ready, just a 3/8" plate with 30mm hole spacing all over; this one will be machined locally so that might take some time. Leveling of the bed will be done with thin sheet aluminum beer can :D (the secret it out).

    What also might take some time are the 3 flute, 1/8" shaft, GP 30°, AlTiN coated square (tip) end mills to come in. There is nothing sold here. I've decided to add an air-blower tube with coolant/lubricant injected through a Venturi valve; this will cool and clean the cut at the same time.

    Back to work!

    -Ronald
     
    #11 Ronald van Arkel, May 31, 2016
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  12. Darrell Corpening

    Darrell Corpening New
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    Ronald,
    I for one am in eager anticipation of the next chapter in your upgrade. Y Axis, wiring, etc.
     
    #12 Darrell Corpening, Jun 3, 2016
  13. UltiBots

    UltiBots Well-Known
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    Ronald - Great upgrade!!! Machined 6.5mm 6061-T6 Aluminum carriages for our V-Slot DeltaBots and found rigidity an issue. See gallery images and details below. Looking forward to implementing your upgrade.
     
    #13 UltiBots, Jun 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2016
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  14. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
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    Ronald,
    Nice enhancements. A few questions:
    1) what size spacers are you using with the mini v wheels in the top portion of the plate sandwich?
    Capture1.JPG

    2) Are you using this setup to the belt reduction?
    GT3 20 tooth pulley, 6mm belt width:
    GT3 Timing Pulley - 20 Tooth
    GT3 40 tooth pulley, 6mm belt width:
    Where did you source yours? Doesn't look like the OpenBuilds store has them. I found this, GT Pulleys (GT2 and GT3)
    240mm GT3 6mm wide belt
    Closest I could find... 231 GT3 6 round timing bel 231mm length GT3 6mm width 5pcs free shipping-in Transmission Belts from Industry & Business on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    3) Do you think using "high torque" 9mm wide belts would be beneficial?

    Capture1.JPG
     
    #14 Carl Feniak, Jun 10, 2016
  15. EvanBruner

    EvanBruner Well-Known
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    It looks like that's the right parts for the pulley setup. I cant find them on the openbuilds US site which is a shame since I saw them on there not long ago. It looks like the Mexico site has the parts though.

    I looked on ebay for a reduction setup and there are some but only in GT2 belts. I'd imagine the GT2 is fine for a reduction setup but I'm not sure.

    gt3 reduction belt | eBay

    If you go that way it looks like you'll have to request a belt for about a 45-55mm wheelbase, if anyone can confirm that it'd be great.

    Edit:
    HTD3M 50T 25T Belt Width 10mm Timing Pulley Belt set kit Reduction Ratio 2:1
    That seems to be a really good option if you can't get the parts from Openbuilds. 10mm belt, 3mm tooth (GT3?) and a large motor pulley for a lot of tooth engagement.
     
    #15 EvanBruner, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  16. Dave420

    Dave420 New
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    6mm 9mm 6mm spacers. those are not mini v wheels nut standard v wheels. if that is a
    Gantry Plate - XLarge
     
    #16 Dave420, Jun 11, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2016
  17. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hello @EvanBruner,


    It looks like the OpenBuilds HQ has pulled the plates from the store for now to add some improvements. OpenBuilds Mexico has indeed only 2 in stock at the moment. I would wait a bit till the plate is released again as I don't see GT2 / 2GT as an option, MXL can be found as 2.93mm (0.115") pitch, close to 3mm and works well.

    The belt and pulleys are sold by OpenBuilds, it's just the plate that is missing from the store.

    @Dave420 is right about the spacers and some of the 6mm spacers you already have.

    ----------------

    I've been working on some other small projects that I had laying around, so still no drawing for the electrical part. The table I'll have ready by next week, so they say ;). I'm also waiting on my DW611 collet replacement (1/8) and some bit's to start with, big thank you to @UltiBots for the great tip!
     
    #17 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 13, 2016
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  18. UltiBots

    UltiBots Well-Known
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    Ronald -

    I Implemented some of your upgrades. Unfortunately I was traveling when I placed the order and didn't order 2 C-Beam™ Gantry Plate - XLarge :( Been making lots of chips since I upgraded XY gantries. See the results in our C-Beam & Carriages galleries.

    Thanks for sharing - Brad
    www.UltiBots.com
    ==================
    Modified C-Beam Bundle
    Dewalt 611
    Elaire 1/8" Collet
    1/8" Single Flute Carbide End Mill
    Workflow = Fusion 360 & Cam > Chilipeppr > Tinyg
    Feed = 20"/min (508mm/min), Ramp = 10"/min (245mm/min), Plunge = 8"/min (203.2mm/min)
    Pocket cut = 0.25mm rough & 0.2mm finish, 3mm max stepover
    Bore cut = 0.2mm pitch
    Contour cut = 0.25mm rough & 0.2mm finish
     
    #18 UltiBots, Jun 13, 2016
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  19. EvanBruner

    EvanBruner Well-Known
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    Does anyone have any tips for adjusting their eccentrics on sandwiched gantry plates? I can only seem to get the row of wheels farthest from the z axis tightened with the eccentrics, the rest are kinda floating. Thanks!
     
    #19 EvanBruner, Jun 17, 2016
  20. Carl Feniak

    Carl Feniak Journeyman
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    Hmm, 3D print a double ended wrench so you can tension both at the same time? Else two wrenchs, hex key, and nut driver all at once! 4 handed operation.
     
    #20 Carl Feniak, Jun 17, 2016
  21. EvanBruner

    EvanBruner Well-Known
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    Haha I wish I had a 3d printer or 4 hands! I'll just have to spend a bit more time on it I guess.
     
    #21 EvanBruner, Jun 17, 2016
  22. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Darn, just a "few" chips. I'm about the order the collet like you have, and I'll go with those end-mills as well. Sure it will take months to have that shipped to Mexico. Next week I hope to get the table plate in, 3/8" with treated holes every 30mm. I'm also still waiting for the 100nF and 10k resistors for the switches. In the mean time I'm working on a "low cost" router, today I'll draw the cable chain. All will be with OpenBuilds parts except the cable chain.

    @EvanBruner, use a mirror and always turn the laser-marked side pointing outwards of the X-Z body ;). The eccentric spacers will not turn when you tighten the nut.
     
    #22 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 17, 2016
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  23. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    Ronald:

    Awesome upgrades. I just finished posting my table/Y Axis upgrades for the C-Beam machine, now have 420mm x 420mm capacity! Take a look and see what you think: C-Beam Machine Too

    I was trying to think of a way to improve the Z gantry stiffness and this is exactly it! I have most of the parts, just need the belt reduction and the double c-beam gantry plate to make it happen.

    Keep up the fair work, buddy! ;)
     
    #23 Metalguru, Jun 28, 2016
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  24. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    So what happened to the belt reduction parts in the OB store? They are not there anymore...
     
    #24 Metalguru, Jun 28, 2016
  25. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Hello @Metalguru,

    Just contact them by mail, they have them in stock, it's SKU 872.

    I'll read trough your build later, doing some precise drag chain drawing (18x25 chain). Did you by the Igus or any other chain?

    -Ronald
     
    #25 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 28, 2016
  26. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    #26 Metalguru, Jun 28, 2016
  27. Ronald van Arkel

    Ronald van Arkel Veteran
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    Only the plate is gone, the rest should be there:

    GT3 Timing Pulley - 20 Tooth - High Torque Series

    and... what the... Just write them tomorrow, I have no clue why the parts are not there at the moment.

    That drag chain doesn't look that bad at all. Most are made of P66 nylon so durability must be okay, I also see you can open them so no need to cut the plug of your router/spindle :).

    -Ronald
     
    #27 Ronald van Arkel, Jun 28, 2016
  28. Metalguru

    Metalguru Veteran
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    I haven't broken one of them yet, and they have mounting holes at both ends, so you can split them in the middle into 2 pieces. 1/2m is good enough for most x/z axis applications. And, they have holes big enough for M5 screws.
     
    #28 Metalguru, Jun 28, 2016
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  29. Bob K

    Bob K New
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    This is my first build so I expect that, once again, I've selected the wrong parts or are assembling them wrong. Your help would be much appreciated.

    I'm trying to use your wheel sandwich on a C-beam machine I'm building and I can't figure out how to get the anti-backlash nut's 8mm hole to line up with the 11mm hole in the C-beam end mount.

    The center of the backlash nut's is about 2 - 2.5mm higher (towards the edge with the two tapped holes in it) than the center of the 11mm hole in the end mount (best case).

    As best I can tell from the build pictures and the C-Beam plate cutter BOM I'm using the same parts.

    I'm using a 965 C-Beam end mount, a 2030 C-beam Xlarge gantry plate and a 1055 anti-backlash nut. The 965 end mount is bolted to the pre-tapped holes in the C-beam. The gantry plate is laying flat on the C-beam. There are no spacers being used.

    I used a 1/4" rod to find out where the backlash nut's hole center was in relation to the hole in the end mount.

    Bob
    DSC02383.JPG DSC02354.JPG DSC02351.JPG
     
    #29 Bob K, Jun 30, 2016
  30. Kyo

    Kyo Veteran
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    You will need to install a 3mm spacer between the xl plate and nut block for proper alignment with the end plates.

    3mm Spacer.png
     
    #30 Kyo, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
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