Hi Guys So i have the ox cnc for a few months now from the guys ozznet kit with a makita style router so now i have decided to swap it for a 2.2kw water cooled one. So today i have mounted everything and i guess the z motor (nema23) doesnt like the weight of it.. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155020003454742 Is there something i can do stop it dropping? new stepper motor? or is the spindle just too heavy? Thanks in advance Sunil
Hehe i have the 2.2kw motor aswell but i havent mounted it yet since i was suspecting the nema 23 wouldnt be able to hold it. I am hoping the high torque series can ,otherwise i have wasted 260€ for it Hope someone can answer us
Or... you can use the 2.2kW as a 7kg+ / 15.4lbs+ paperweight (sell)... and get a 1.5kW one that is about 63-67% less in weight, air-cooled that is. The frequency controller and clamp most likely can be used for a 1.5kW spindle as well (clamp if you get a 85mm diameter spindle). But, we do have customers that have a 2.2kW spindle on their Ox, but they have changed the motors for the twice as heavy ones (345) on the Z and X axis, bolted the 2x 20x60mm V-Slot together, using double belts (google for it if you have never seen it), swapped the Z axis out for a C-Beam double wide gantry plate and thus a C-Beam placed on the X/Z body. Sure I would not dare to talk about the Ox that uses the NEMA17 on the Z-Axis... Next step would be a single start 8mm Acme so the spindle would not, or less, pull down the Acme nutblock; our customers seem to be okay with the upgrades mentioned before. What I forgot to mention is, they use a 1440mm wide gantry to cut just over 1220mm / 4' on the X axis. I do believe however, that leaving the woodrouter "spindles" behind is a good idea, but for aluminum 20 series extrusion builds I would recommend to not go over 1.5kW - they are 2.6kg / 5.7lbs about without the clamp(s) - and leave the aquarium pump where it is, go for air cooling and make your own dust shoe is you are creating too much dust (you always do with wood). Note that 1.5kW spindles come in ER11 and some in ER16 collets from factory, while the 2.2kW comes with an ER20. Just my 2c, -Ronald
Hi. Only reason to go 2,2 kw is, as mentioned the use of ER20 collets. I have used a 800w air-cooled spindle more than 3 years and have not used it to limits when using 6mm bits. Recently i swapped it for a 65mm 1,5 kw watercooled simply for two reasons; Want to create a new dust-shoe and hold-down design which is more easy with water-cooled spindles and second the bearings on the latter are further appart which is always a good thing. For stopping a big spindle from creeping down it is nescesary to use a spindle with little tpi/tpcm like a 16/5 or 16/4 cm one. apart from that it should have been obvious (common sense) that a 5kg spindle is far too heavy and thus will not only slide down by it self but aditionally induce twist into your gantry, rendering it useless unless heavylie reinforcing your cnc. You should have tried first by using a bag full of sand/lead... on top or your old router. have a look at my avatar, the 140kg diy-cnc is build for lightweight spindles but could take the 2,2 if one chooses. But than it might be tripple as strong at the very least than any ox. If you really want to keep it there is electric breaks for steppers but make sure your BOB/cam combo can deal with it. greets flo
Thanks for the inputs guys.. yes main reason i went for the 2.2 was the er20 collets as my router has only option of 1/4 collet! The dust boot is kinda covered So this is what ive got so far below for the new spindle: I quite like the water cooled feature (noise, less dust getting blown around) Looking at getting new steppers for the x and z etc, guess it makes more sense to get another spindle So i am guessing the vfd i have is fine, just need to get a new air cooled spindle and mount as all the ones ive seen, are 65mm o/d. Are all water cooled spindles heavy like the 2.2kw?
The watercooled router (65mm diameter) is about 3kg, that's 4kg less than the spindle you have now. Get a second clamp like you have and use a shim to mount the 170mm long body of the motor to the Z-axis. The body of the watercooled spindle is the same length as the aircooled one. The VFD can be used changing the parameter for function PD142 (Rated Motor Current). Personally I like the idea of a aircooled router that is about half a kilo less in weight and blows the area around the bit clean if used at 24k rpm, you already have a nice dustshoe and it would take care of the dust any way. I know it's just me, same with the motorbikes I had, all air (and oil) cooled except for a 50cc 2-stoke I had when I was 18... on the other hand, the microprocessor in my PC is watercooled .
Thanks for the info Ronald, seams i need to decide what to do.. Im sill steering towards a water cooled one due to it not blowing the dust about, i tend to cut mdf so the dust flys allover the garage lol Do you think that the nema23 will be ok with the water cooled 1.5kw option Also ill get another mount like the one below
Don't waste your money on a mount like that, they are cheap to make and that is why they sell those, on the other side, it does give you 108mm of height adjustment possibility. Go with something that has 2 clamps, buy another like you have now and make a nice shim for it. If the base is made for the Bosch 1HP Colt router, you can use a PVC shim made out of a 1/8" wall tube; easy to cut and works/looks good. And put a heavier sucker on that dustshoe if dust still blows around .
You might consider installing a lower pitch screw if the nema 23 doesn't hold it. You'll also get better vertical resolution as a side benefit.
By the way, that kit comes with a NEMA17 motor isn't it? EDIT: Scratch that, I see a NEMA23 at the back..
So finally got some specs for the spindles: 1.5kw water cooled spindles： Spec: φ65x188 mm (Diameter:65mm x Length:188mm) Power: 1.5 KW Voltage: 220V~250V Frequency: 400 Hz Speed:8000-24000 R/min Water Cooling Runout off: less than 0.005mm Grease Lubrication Product Dimension:29 x 13 x 12 cm (L x W x H) Weight: 9 lb 1.5kw air cooled： Spec: φ65x188 mm (Diameter:65mm x Length:188mm) Power: 1.5 KW Voltage: 220V~250V Frequency: 400 Hz Speed:8000-24000 R/min Air Cooling Runout off: less than 0.005mm Grease Lubrication Product Dimension(Approximated): 15"L x 7"W x 7"H Weight: 7 lb So i'm guessing ill be on the limit getting the watercooled one but should be safe getting the air cooled one?
Just tested what sort of weight the motor could take.. SO it takes 3 bottles, a cut off of 3/4 mmf and the mount which cant been seen the 3 bottles and mdf weigh 9.6lb plus the mount so to be on the safe side, i think the air cooled wins.. thoughts please??
just weighted my 2.2kw spindle to 5kg +water which is probably only 200g ,I really dont wana exchange the motor becouse i already purcheased clamp,waterpump+tube, 2 sets of ER20 collets (metric and imperial). Would there actualy be that much deflection from the weight? I have ordered the hightorque nema 23s which can handle the weight i belive. I forgot to mention that i have the Plate maker not the OX which has a shorter X axis.
Test it! extend your z all the way down, put a fishing scale to a long bit and pull some 20 kg. Deflection should be only a few 1/100 mm .... if more you are likely to break small bits while milling. I have just attached this vid to another thread...but once more wont do any harm: greets flo
Yes same here, bought everything plus a full set of collets doh I'm just going to keep it box incase i build another stronger machine Think its going to be a 1.5kw air cooled one for mine
How about springs or counterbalance weight of some sort? Even a few rubber bands, just for testing of course. LOL
Greetings, I wanted to reach out and thank everybody on this post, I have to say that these old posts still have value, I built an OX metal CNC in 2018 and used a cheap spindle (400 w 52mm diameter 912g RPM 0-12000 ER-11 collet) because I figured that I was either going to bury into the bed or drag it across something... which thankfully I have managed to minimize, now it's time to improve on the spindle, I want to get int the 24,000 RPM range, admittedly I wanted to go big 2,2 kw , ER20 collets... The Ox Metal CNC is robust but still light duty and I have to say that I had a hard time figuring out what spindle to go with until I read what happened to Sunil when he installed his 2.2kw water cooled, as I got farther into the post I ran across this one comment that Ronald made: "I would recommend to not go over 1.5kW - they are 2.6kg / 5.7lbs " Ronald's comment made perfect sense…I had spent days reviewing's all kinds of information and did not know what to go with until I read this post, So Thank you Sunil and Ronald for posting and contributing.. I found these nice German Spindale's available in the U.S from CNC Step and I am waiting for a Quote..(I have been waiting for days) .they match the spec and they have both air and water cooled.. Yes... I know they are going to be pricy.. 2.5 kg / LBS. 5.5 / Dia mm 65 @ 24,000 RPM... mechatron HF spindle — CNC STEP USA In any event... Just wanted to say thanks Regards, Ed Zac
Did you ever receive a quote? Their 'Get the Prices' form is more like a newsletter signup than a contact form.
@Ed Zacly As the other guys said, 2.2kW is absolutely ridiculous on an Ox. I have one myself on a much stronger build. I wouldn't dare put it on my 500x500mm Sphinx, and even that is stronger than an Ox will ever be. With that said, the Sphinx couldn't really handle much more than what a router could do. Most routers are in the 750-800W range. 800W spindles are pretty much limited to 1/4" end mills, but you'll actually be able to use all of your tool.
Greetings, Blind Moe, Kevon That's the thing... as a novice your trying to navigate building one of these machines without a frame of reference, you can't really visualize the limits without firsthand knowledge... being conservative I would often question a build when I saw what I thought was an oversize spindle relative to the rest of the build.. For the sake of anyone new to the build process I would like to see them with a suggested upper limit rating posted as part of the build... although unless your building something on steroids the 1.5kW - 24,000 RPM, 2.6kg / 5.7lbs is about as far as you may want to go for most of these builds... for any build that uses V-Slot 20x60-80 mm with 1/4 thick aluminum Gantry ... I would like to see a best practices table ..or build reference for recurring issues (FAQ's) that seem to come up repeatedly... Blind Moe - I finally got the quote ... see attached, these are great spindles, the problem is that they come with a built up VFD, that is part of a box build.(VFD plus other components in a cabinet).. so being value added it push's the price right out there.... Brings me to the next question... I now have to buy another spindle, preferably air cooled, any suggestions on which of the dozens of Chinese Supplier builds a better spindle... and if possible where to buy? .. I don't like buying from e-bay or Amazon... I prefer to buy from a domestic distributer that I can go to for advice... Thanks and Regards
Holy crap, I can buy a brand new Tormach for those prices. As for machine spindle ceilings, even if the machines were stiff enough, the wheels can only handle so much. I'm not saying that these machines are bad. They definitely are amazing at what they are made for, hobby use. Anything beyond 800W won't give you anything more than tool diameter. I'm sure you can easily get away with a 500W brushed spindle on the larger 1000-1500mm builds and still use the machine to its max. People get away with the 1.5Kw spindles, but those machines need extra bracing just to carry it. Even still, they aren't really able to get the most from the spindle. Going too big = You won't be able to use the spindle to it's full potential, not even close. You need to brace your machine heavily, especially once you get into the 1000mm range. You need more wheels. There's a point where you spend more on wheels than you do linear rails which are far stronger. (Again, different purpose.) The average steppers used in these builds can't handle it. (I'm using 269oz.in steppers geared down 3:1 just to compensate for the lack of required torque. I might be running even slower than half feed of what the machine can do.)
Succinctly put Kevon...hopefully somebody who is embarking on a build will run across these comments and find them to be of value as " best Practices for first Builds" These machines are great for what thy are but you have to understand their limits.. I am planning another build for a more robust machine and will turn the OX Metal CNC into a dedicated Laser platform. The OX Metal CNC was a great learning platform for establishing a basic frame of reference...
I saw this spindle/VFD Combo which is a little more affordable. I am not sure of the quality though. 1.5kW Air Cooled Spindle Bundle
Im in the same boat looking for a new spindle right now I using a 500w on a sphinx setup with nema 23 on 8 mm lead screws. Have been thinking of getting a 600w or 800w spindle. Keep running into the brush less type spindles with drivers that look like stepper motor driver. Does anyone have experience with this setup?
I have also been dealing with the question around spindle size & weight... For what I have read so far 1.5kw is sufficient for most DIY built. However, still, wondering about cooling water or air? Perhaps using the same weight rationale then air will be the right choice. Any thought? Also, thinking to include a closed-loop stepper/control driver. Does anyone have any experience using them? US $99.0 |NEMA23 57mm DC16 70V HBS57 zamknięta pętla hybrydowy silnik krokowy z enkoderem jazdy zestaw łatwy serwo dla CNC maszyna do grawerowania|Części i akcesoria do drukarek 3D| - AliExpress The combinations are endless, my head is spinning trying to figure out the parts and vendor to choose from and try to keep it ~$1500... So suggestions are welcome...
That is a very hefty price to a spindle. Try looking for one on AliExpress. With UPS shipping it will come out at half price. I bought stuff for my CNC recently on Ali and had it shlpped with UPS and it arrived at less than 2 weeks.
How about this one I have been eyeballing. https://www.amazon.com/Daedalus-Bru...ching-Engraving/dp/B083XQ9NF1?ref_=ast_sto_dp I am interested in this one but the it only goes to 9000rpm. I recently borked my power supply to my 500w spindle. I'm trying to stay away from the 8k to 1.5kw spindles cause of the weight. But this one I have not been able to find a weight nor a torque rating. Googling in other webpages where it is sold no mention of weight, I am thinking could be only tad a heavier then my 500w one. And does the 9000rpm matter? Thanks!
