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BlackBox

Discussion in 'Other Builds' started by Mark Carew, Feb 22, 2019.

BlackBox Motion Control System

BlackBox Motion Control System

Discussion in 'Other Builds' started by Mark Carew, Feb 22, 2019.

The Openbuilds BlackBox is a new system evolved around a set of subsystems that cover more than just control and also more than just CNC type applications! With a plug-and-play easy connection system this controller can be used with ease, without sacrificing power.

BlackBox Controller driver ecosystem powerful cnc
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  1. Denis Lapratte

    Denis Lapratte New
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    But how do you adjust master/slave without stalling one of the two and causing a misalignment when one of the two stall?
     
    #421 Denis Lapratte, Jul 1, 2019
  2. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    I made the same adjustment on Y and Y2 at the same time. Didnt havent any issues with one stalling.
     
    #422 sharmstr, Jul 1, 2019
  3. Denis Lapratte

    Denis Lapratte New
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    Thanks, will try this when installing.
     
    #423 Denis Lapratte, Jul 1, 2019
  4. Muxa

    Muxa New
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    After some adventures with the local post loosing my package, bit finally received the BlackBox!
    Assembling was straight forward: easy, quick a lot of fun.
    Today i have finished setting up on on by OX CNC and configuring everything.
    IMG_5766.jpg
    I have yet to run something with it but so far i really like it - quite drivers and a slick package.
    Looking forward to putting it the test.

    Page about my CNC: Ooznest OX CNC.
     

    Attached Files:

    #424 Muxa, Jul 5, 2019
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  5. crnrstndes

    crnrstndes Well-Known
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    I have a quick question I hope. I received my BlackBox and I have set it up as per the Wiki and the various videos. When I turn the box on all my motors become energized. When I connect to the Open Builds Control Panel everything works as it should (I have a C-Beam XL) as it jogs correctly and is really smooth but I am upgrading from a Audrino Uno / C-Shield and when it was connected I could jog my axis' by hand. With the BlackBox I can't move any of the axis' by hand! Any help would be appreciated!
     
    #425 crnrstndes, Jul 5, 2019
  6. crnrstndes

    crnrstndes Well-Known
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    Another quick question, I want to use UGS as well as Easel, I suspect the BlackBox will work with any GRBL based program?? Thanks!
     
    #426 crnrstndes, Jul 5, 2019
  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Thats a Grbl setting, but PLEASE do not change it (we set it be default to prevent people moving it by hand... See next section) and NEVER move an axis by hand. Stepper motors when spun by the axle, become a generator. Pushing voltage back into the driver when you move the axis by hand. Guess what happens when you push the stepper into becoming a generator spitting current and even high voltage if you move fast enough, into a driver thats not supposed to be getting that? Poof, magic smoke, and a non working board. This holds true for almost all stepper drivers. Never move an axis by hand. Use the JOG functions in software
     
    #427 Peter Van Der Walt, Jul 6, 2019
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  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Standard Grbl so yes, if software works with Grbl it should
     
    #428 Peter Van Der Walt, Jul 6, 2019
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  9. crnrstndes

    crnrstndes Well-Known
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    Thanks Peter, I was just concerned about the fact the motors were energized and they have a hum coming from them! Good information! Thanks again!
     
    #429 crnrstndes, Jul 6, 2019
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  10. JoshT

    JoshT New
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    Mine has started doing this too - was working fine until I went to OpenBuilds Control v1.0.179...
     
    #430 JoshT, Jul 6, 2019
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    It is very unlikely yo be software related, more likely EMI (If ever in doubt, check the Changelog, see if there was any changes to thing you suspect: OpenBuilds/OpenBuilds-CONTROL )
    - seperate your power (mains) and signal wires with some distance between them. Also motor wires - they also emit some EMI
    - use good quality USB cables with Ferrite Cores

    And make sure Windows isnt shutting down your Port for you (USB Selective Suspend) : USB device not getting along with Windows 10? Try this quick fix.
     
    #431 Peter Van Der Walt, Jul 7, 2019
  12. cnccraft

    cnccraft New
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    @ OpenBuilds Team
    Comparing with the datasheet of the Motor Driver-IC in Blackbox (Toshiba TB67S109AFTG) I think there is something wrong with the labels for die Motor Connections. Please look at the attachment (Problems marked with "?")
     

    Attached Files:

    #432 cnccraft, Jul 29, 2019
  13. David the swarfer

    David the swarfer OpenBuilds Team
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    so what?
    so long as one coil is labeled 'something' and the other coil is labelled 'somethingelse' the device will work for any correctly connected motor.
    there is no use case here where it matters which pins your motor is connected to.
     
    #433 David the swarfer, Jul 29, 2019
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  14. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Nailed it perfectly :)

    Labels are just to identify coil one and coil the other.
     
    #434 Peter Van Der Walt, Jul 29, 2019
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  15. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    Adjust Stepper Driver Current ???

    What does this really mean ?? "Adjust the current until you can no longer stall the motor under normal operating conditions."

    OpenBuilds BlackBox has four onboard Stepper Drivers. As part of bringing your machine online, you are required to adjust the stepper driver current for each axis.
    • Adjust each axis in turn
    • Adjust the current until you can no longer stall the motor under normal operating conditions.
     
    #435 KaosCNC, Jul 29, 2019
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  16. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    There are trim pots on the side of the black box. One for each axis. They control how much current goes to the motor. Not enough and your motor will stall. Too much and your motor will overheat and go into thermal shutdown as indicated by the red exclamation point next to each axis. The way I did it is I set all the pots to the middle. I jogged one axis and adjusted the trim pot up and down for that axis to determine the sweet spot.
     
    #436 sharmstr, Jul 29, 2019
  17. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    Ok. I always thought that there was some sort of test done with a multimeter to set the correct current. So this is just a swag. I understand each axis has it's own setting but do you set them all the same or do you adjust each one regardless of how a different axis is set? I.e. X axis is good at 3/4 turn so set the rest to 3/4 turn ?
     
    #437 KaosCNC, Jul 29, 2019
  18. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    Adjust each individually.
     
    #438 sharmstr, Jul 29, 2019
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  19. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    Thanks - Another question if you don't mind... Is it possible to use a touch probe block for setting not only the z but the x and y to the corner? Or is that merely just gcode. As you can tell I am a novice if even that.
     
    #439 KaosCNC, Jul 29, 2019
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  20. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    The blackbox has a place to install a probe. The type of probing is handled in software. If you're using OB Control there is a built in Z probe. For x,y,z probing you need to use a macro. Please refer to the following thread for additional probing questions: OpenBuilds CONTROL Software
     
    #440 sharmstr, Jul 29, 2019
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  21. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    Thanks for that information about the macros.

    I am going to be using nema 17 so should I be using a 12v power supply to the blackbox or a 24v power supply? If 24v how do I set the correct voltage for the nema 17?
     
    #441 KaosCNC, Jul 31, 2019
  22. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    #442 sharmstr, Jul 31, 2019
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  23. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    Ok so back to the stall setting procedure... that must adjust the voltage internally I assume.

    Thanks.
     
    #443 KaosCNC, Jul 31, 2019
  24. crnrstndes

    crnrstndes Well-Known
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    From the doc-

    "Adjust Stepper Driver Current
    OpenBuilds BlackBox has four onboard Stepper Drivers. As part of bringing your machine online, you are required to adjust the stepper driver current for each axis.
    • Adjust each axis in turn
    • Adjust the current until you can no longer stall the motor under normal operating conditions".
    What would be the best method of achieving this? My parts all came from Open Builds ie Cbeam XL and I just figured it wouldn't be necessary to adjust anything except calibrating my steps....am I crazy??
     
    #444 crnrstndes, Jul 31, 2019
  25. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Stepper motors are constant CURRENT devices. The stepper drivers have intelligence and constantly 'chop' the voltage to achieve the correct CURRENT setting. Nothing sets the voltage, except Ohm Law (resistance of the coil, required current rating, works out what voltage to chop too - of course it all changes hundreds of times per second due to decay, microstepping, and a host of other control loops running in the stepper driver)

    Long story short. You are overthinking it. Plug in motor. Run a little. If Machine is overheating, turn 1/8th of a turn left. If its too weak, turn right. You will never het a 'set it to exactly that' as its pointless as no two setups are exactly the same. Super easy, and not like 'i need to set it to exactly 45.1675deg north while standing on one leg for it to work' - we picked great drivers and engineered it all to be bulletproof and just work!

    On the old repraps the 'measure the vref' thing was due to way underpowered Allegro drivers that shutdown if you looked at them funny... Those days are long gone
     
    #445 Peter Van Der Walt, Aug 1, 2019
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  26. crnrstndes

    crnrstndes Well-Known
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    Thanks again Peter! Now I can use both feet! LOL
     
    #446 crnrstndes, Aug 1, 2019
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  27. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    I got my blackbox in hand and built it and now I just want to ask..... any common mistakes that a novice would do that will kill the box?

    I know how to correctly wire the power in, etc. But beyond that ?
     
    #447 KaosCNC, Aug 1, 2019
  28. sharmstr

    sharmstr OpenBuilds Team
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    Not really ones that have killed the box.

    Common mistakes have been not setting $4=1 in grbl and setting the power supply to the wrong power (i.e. not switching to 110v on new ps).
     
    #448 sharmstr, Aug 1, 2019
  29. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Wouldn't kill it, but double check endstop wiring twice. Theres a power pin and gnd pin (along with signal) on the plug. Shorting gnd to power will prevent board from booting and may give USB surge warning on PC. Thats a 3rd popular one (along with the already mentioned $4=1 and PSU which come up often in support questions)
    Good luck!
     
    #449 Peter Van Der Walt, Aug 1, 2019
  30. KaosCNC

    KaosCNC Well-Known
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    On my meanwell PSU I did switch it to the 110v so I am good on that part.

    Sorry for not knowing this but was is "$4=1 in grbl" ? I presume that is something that gets set in the OpenBuilds CONTROL when I set up the machine?
     
    #450 KaosCNC, Aug 1, 2019
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