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BlackBox

Discussion in 'Other Builds' started by Mark Carew, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    That could work, although that particular switch is meant to be soldered to a PCB so might break when used on its own. There are nice panel mount toggle switches available (though Sparkfun doesnt stock them) - a search for "spdt toggle" should get you a local seller

    spdt.PNG
    Of course its up to you wheter you want a toggle switch, rocker switch, slide switch etc. Just make sure it has a way to mount (keyword: panel mount tends to help) and wire lugs (not PCB pins)
     
  2. stuart wallace

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  3. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    No video/doc of using both, not really the intent of the product, this is but a hack to get you working. As you can see its quite unconventional and requires a user tackling this to have some skills (the other options I presented above might be easier if you are not familiar with electronics - sourcing and soldering switches etc)

    That switch in your link has weird legs for use with very old school Wire Wrapping technique

    search for 'T80 toggle" on ebay, compare to picture above - lugs has round holes to make soldering wires on easier
     
  4. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
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  5. Brandon Hurst

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    All ready for the rest of the workbee to come together
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    Just noticed the Openbuilds facebook page is plugging the BlackBox easter egg today. I don't actually have a BlackBox to put a case on (they came out just after I got my Lead), but I'm a sucker for ARGy puzzles (and was desperately hoping to be dragged away from running endless stall tests on steppers - ugh) so I took a crack at it anyhow, just for bats & giggles...

    ...And it looks like there's a teensy problem with it.

    Unless the easter chicken laid multiple eggs & I was fry scrambl cracking the wrong one, the 'congratulations' page says "Code will self destruct on 12/31/2019" (and, yes, it looks like the store agrees).

    It might be good to either update the coupon, or stop advertising the event.


    -Bats
    (hey... if I get all the answers, can I get some free BlackBox guts to wrap a case around?)
     
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  7. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Will let the store know! Good catch!
     
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  8. Peter Froh

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    so what commands are used to activate the “cool output”? Is it M8/9? If so how does changing the jumper effect the cool output functionality? More documentation. On both relay and cool plug is needed.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.

    also there is no documentation on what voltage is output for the relay plug. Can you help with that?
     
  9. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Relay is most often used for Plasma trigger: See OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation
    Its meant for low voltage switching, max 6A. No voltage output, its just a Relay (see labels on BlackBox: NO and COM = standard terms for COMMON and Normally Open) you need to wire it up as a switch into an external circuit

    Yes, M8/M9
    The jumper connects either toolhead or coolant signal to relay (some people want to use toolhead signal for example as plasma trigger, others may want to use relay to switch a solenoid for a mist cooling system, or a pump, or abuse it as a LED circuit etc) - jumper adds some flexibility: Explained here: OpenBuilds BlackBox 4X Documentation

    Did you read the Grbl Wiki? gnea/grbl - BlackBox runs Grbl, so it goes hand in hand.
    Also LinuxCNC "G-Code" Quick Reference as thats what Grbl is basing its command structures off: See M Codes for example
     
  10. Peter Froh

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    Thanks Peter for the quick reply!

    so M8/9 functions the cool output. Am I correct in thinking when cool is cycled on using M8 there should be a 24V current to my relay (that would start my air assist pump)? Currently using a multimeter there is almost no voltage difference when cool is cycled on and off. There is almost 10amps though.

    I just found out I was shipped a 12V power supply so that may have caused this issue? My retailer is sending me a 24V power supply so I’m hoping that will rectify the problem.
     
  11. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Coolant output on the right puts out 24v max 5a when M8 is on, the Relay is just passive (a switch) connecting Com to No when jumper and mcode sets it
     
  12. Peter Froh

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    So I got my 24V power supply from the business I purchased the Acro and black box from. The cool plug now activates my relay switch (which is a 240V relay/switch by Releco). When I plug in my 240V air pump and turn coolant on the relay activates the switch and the air pump starts. Immediately afterwards the relay/switch and pump turns off and my laser module flashes the laser a couple of times and it disconnects the black box from the openbuilds control software. When the air pump is NOT plugged into the wall socket the coolant on/off works as expected. (this same setup worked fine when I had my laser attached to my CNC machine and VFD).

    I'm not sure whats going on and I'm wondering if someone could provide some suggestions or input.

    Thanks,
    Peter
     
  13. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    What sort of air pump? Some work on the principle of an electromagnetic vibrator pushing a diaphragm. If that's the case you have a magnetic field collapsing at your mains frequency - generating lots of EMI. If that could be your problem look at the routing of your cables.
    Alex.
     
  14. Peter Froh

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    That’s probably it. It’s like an aquarium pump. It’s all just sitting on my waste board so I’ll move it farther away and test it out.
     
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  15. Peter Froh

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    BINGO! That was exactly it. Thanks so much for the advice :)
     
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  16. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    You're welcome - glad it was relatively easy to fix.
    Alex.
     
  17. Peter Froh

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    I bought the z-axis upgrade for my acro From JTech Laser and now my z-axis motor is not working.

    I know it’s not my black box controller because the z-axis control will drive the x-axis motor when I switch plugs.

    When I put my fingers on the z motor and try to move it I can feel a slight vibration. Changing the current adjustment does not help the z-axis.

    This all happens when I have a 12V power supply plugged into the black box.

    When I plug in the 24V power supply the black box only gives the red exclamation mark for the z-axis regardless of how I turn the current adjustment.
     
  18. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    That is almost certainly a wiring issue. Did you check which wires were connected to each coil of your stepper (multimeter on continuity or resistance) - there is no standard for colour coding. If by chance you connect them and find your Z axis goes the opposite way to what you expect you can either swap over the wires on one coil or reverse the direction on grbl.
    Alex.
     
  19. Peter Froh

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    I just mirrored how the motors on the acro were connected.

    I’ll have to research The wires on this z-axis stepper motor. Is there any literature somewhere that gives a “how to” do the testing?

    thanks for the quick reply. I’m very impressed with how fast openbuilds responds to peoples issues!!
     
  20. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    You're just lucky with responses :p. You have two coils in the stepper motor. You just need to identify the two ends of each coil, so if you get a low resistance/continuity from your multimeter you have found both ends of one coil. As I said above, if the motor goes the wrong way you just swap over the wires of one coil or you can reverse direction with a grbl setting.
    Alex.
     
  21. Peter Froh

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    I unplugged my z stepper motor from the cable leading to the black box. even with the z-motor not plugged in I get the red exclamation mark on the black box at the lowest current setting.
     
  22. Alex Chambers

    Alex Chambers Master
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    You are switching everything off before unplugging stepper motors @Peter Froh?
    Alex.
     
  23. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    Please don't :) it's spec'ed for 24v, 12v might have causes unknown damage.

    Are you running on 12v during this test? Exclamation mark means one of the following:
    - Short circuit
    - Undervoltage
    - Overcurrent
    - Overtemperature

    Which is another fast way to kill a stepper driver: when you disconnect a powered on motor, the magnetic field collapses on itself, creates back-EMF and that causes an inrush current that can fry the drivers.

    If you did damage your Z axis driver, you could replace the BlackBox, or since its NEMA17s which doesn't need that much current, wire the two Y motors in parallel (note to swop direction of one pair of wires to reverse opposite side motor) and then use the Slave axis (Y2) with the jumper se to Z, to run your Z axis
     
  24. Peter Froh

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    Just an update. I replaced the z axis stepper motor and it’s all working again. I must have burned out the stepper motor. I have the current adjustment set to lowest for z axis. The motor is only a Nema 14 so it’s pretty tiny. It still gets very hot but I’m hoping it won’t burn out.

    Does anyone have any experience with running JTech’s z axis upgrade on the openbuilds blackbox? Advice for those that do?
     
  25. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
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    That would've been good info to let us in on from the get-go.
    Minimum output current of the BlackBox is 1.1A, so check your motor's datasheet, if it cannot handle that, consider using a larger motor (Can still be NEMA14, but with different winding specifications, or a longer body, speak to your motor supplier and make sure you get one over 1.1A)
     
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  26. Grif

    Grif New
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    I like the blackbox and all that it can do. But does it come with all the connectors or do I have to drop more money on all these connectors to hookup my gear to it. I looked at the parts list and nowhere are the connector listed. Please inform the sales dept to include all the necessary connectors.
     
  27. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
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    Hi Grif, Yes all the plugs on the BB have a matching connector.
    Watch the assembly video, one of the first things done is take all the included connectors out.
    Cheers
    Gary

     
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  28. Batcrave

    Batcrave Journeyman
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    If I remember right (and my unboxing photos say that yes, for a change, I actually do) , then yes, all the "Xtension" connectors came with the mating pair plugged into its' respective receptacle. The only two that don't have connectors are the 4-pin AUX & 3-pin SERVO, which look like they'd use standard Dupont connectors (and which are, for completely unrelated reasons, the only two ports I have yet to come up with a use for). They also don't include connectors for the other end of the wires, but that's to be expected, since, for obvious reasons, it doesn't include the wire by default either.

    It's worth mentioning that pretty much everything I've gotten from OB that uses one of those connectors included the mating one - even the pre-sized wire kits - so they're definitely not stingy about it. I've got a whole mess of extras kicking around from a few different orders that I didn't realize I didn't need to order.

    They seem to be pretty nice little connectors, too - miles beyond the damned 4-pin Molex drive connectors I'd been using in the past - although I do wonder from time to time (and when I see a build video that ziptie them together) if something with a clip might've been a little more secure. Of course, it would've also made the BlackBox at least twice as thick, so I suppose there always has to be a compromise somewhere.


    -Bats
    (annnd... Gary beat me to it. Dammit, Gary! How dare you be so efficient?)
     
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  29. Neil Scott

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    I can confirm that , Im just about to build mine and all the connectors are there.
     
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  30. Grif

    Grif New
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    Thanks you for the quick reply, I had purchased a smoothie board from OB's and it came with all the connectors except one end stop. Part list shows only 5, but need 6 to complete build for all axes min/max. For other reasons, I still have yet to get this going with smoothie board. I had put my build on hold for two years due to health reasons, and now that I'm back on it. I come the end of the build and my smoothie board is getting too complicated for me. I shake too much to soldier anything, so this looks to be a better fit for my OX metal build.
     
  31. Bill Jennings

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