If someone comes up with a way to drive a BlackBox (or any GRBL controller) with Mach3/4, it'd make me a very happy bat... but they sort of compete for the same position in the control chain (or a similar position in somewhat differently shaped control chains): Mach eats G-code & spits out step/dir pulses to the stepper drivers, while with a GRBL setup the software just hands the G-code itself straight to the board (or BlackBox), where the firmware then generates the pulses for the drivers.

If you could get Mach to just spit the G-code back out again (after reducing/re-posting it to GRBL-flavored G-code), you might be able to do it - but it would likely lose a lot of Mach's fine control and configuration, while adding all of GRBL's problems and limitations to all of Mach's.

Of course, there are also more complicated scenarios where Mach 3/4 hands off the stepgen to an intermediate hardware device like a Smooth Stepper, but, seeing as I've never been sure just how that setup works, I'm going to refrain from speculating on whether or not it's in any way similar.


-Bats
(appreciate this moment. refraining from speculation is not something that comes easily to me.)

 

You could certainly use a UC100 or an ESS or something similar to replace the Arduino on your machine, these have MACH3 drivers and output pulse and direction on hard wired pins. Which is essentially exactly what the Arduino does.

All any motion controller does is take g-code and turn it into hardware pins to control the stepper drivers. The original MACH3 used to do this with a software motion controller driving a parallel port card which is essentially just a general purpose I/O port with inputs and outputs. These were connected directly to the stepper drivers and limit inputs through a BOB which just did some signal conversion and housekeeping. There are no smarts on a BOB. All of the motion control calculations were done on the PC.

With the Arduino, it just provides a platform to run it's own motion controller, interface limits, and accept g-code over a USB port. You can certainly replace your Arduino/GRBL with any motion controller you want. The Black Box is just an arduino with stepper drivers built in. The ESS for instance has a much more complex motion controller than GRBL, and would make for much smoother operation. Not nearly as cheap, though...

The ESS driver on MACH3 just replaces the MACH3 software motion controller with it's own hardware based motion controller, and replaces the parallel port card with it's own I/O. There is no mystery here.

Trying to drive a GRBL based motion controller with a MACH 3 motion controller makes no sense. That's like using a laptop to force feed keyboard data through a USB port into a desktop computer. You only need the one computer...

Problem solved. Think inside the box...

MG

 

OpenBuilds CONTROL is lovely. I grbl it up in fusion 360 and use OBC to dump things to the machine.

 

What are the symptoms of a a limit switch shielding issue with the black box? Or I guess any grbl controller. Had a surfacing job pause twice. I just punched run and it picked up again. Trying to figure out if it is a limit switch issue or if a hose or wire was smacking the keyboard...

 

That's how I thought the limit switches worked. Cool. Thanks!

90% chance my air hose hit the space bar.

 

It doesn't sound like it's related to the limit switches - at least directly. If it were, I'd expect to see the usual "limit switch triggered, homing suggested, etc" alert.

I hate to even suggest it, but that sounds like the beginning of my noise problem. Any chance you're using a VFD or any other noisy electronics?

-Bats
(the best part of waking up is ... what is the best part? It all seems pretty wretched)

 

Nope. Just a Makita router.

 

... or, yeah, you could've just paused it.

The difference is, pause makes it show up as being paused, while noise doesn't - you have to hit pause & then unpause again.

- Bats
(oh, right. Incoherence. That's the best part of waking up)

 

Hmmmm... I'll keep an eye open for that. I don't remember the state of the pause buttons. I think they were out of sync but I didn't have to pause/unpause.

What are the mitigations for this?

 

Ferrite cores going into shopping cart.

 

Umm...

Well...

Funny you should ask that...

See, I don't actually know. I kinda toasted the VFD before I could get around to all the rewiring, shielding, enclosing, ferriteing to see what worked.

You can check the lengthy, meandering, and terribly inconclusive threads that touch on it here:
Escape from (VFD) noise?

and here:
Need Help! What's the story on 1.5kW 110V VFDs?

...but basically it all comes down to general shielding best practices and hoping for the best once I hook up the replacement noisemaker. Ferrites on the USB line are definitely the easiest place to start, though, and might've saved me from needing the replacement if I'd tried it rather than spending several increasingly frustrating days convinced I was going to find some other cause.

There was also a fair bit of time being baffled at the problem sneaking up from nowhere & rapidly becoming worse, but I'm hoping you won't see that bit of it.


-Bats
(that's ferrite-ing, not ferreting. no matter how adorable they are, hyperactive stretch rats have no place in a proper CNC build)

 

Oh, right. That was the other bit I wanted to mention. Trim routers usually aren't a problem in the way VFDs are, although if you've got a full-size router motor up there, I've heard of those being a bit noisier.

Sometimes, but not always. Although you'll definitely know it's EMI if you start getting garbage in the logs like this:

Code:

.000|FS:0,0>
.000|FS:0,0>
.000|FS:0,0>
:1.000,0.000,0.000|FS:0,0>
:1.000,0.000,0.000|FS:0,0|Ov:100,100,100>
.000|FS:0,0>
.000|FS:0,0>
s:1.000,0.000,0.000|FS:0,0>

(which are actually the mangled tails of standard grbl status lines - the BlackBox just usually mutes them to keep the log readable)


-Bats
(there are some things I really never wanted to learn this much about. EMI is definitely one of them. the existence of the Bobbit worm is another.)

 

Thanks for the info. I'll toss some protection on the lines as a start and work from there if I have to.

 

I always recommend using the USB cables with the built in ferrites. Both ends if possible.

You might have to take the USB cable out of the cable chain and just let it dangle, if it's in the chain with unshielded motor wires it could be a problem.

Also, don't plug your router into the same circuit that the machine and computer are on. I never run the router power cord through the cable chain for just this reason. A power filter (Tripp Lite Isobar Ultra) for the machine and computer works well.

MG

 

blackbox is it compatible whit macbook pro?

 

I'm wondering, what happens if one driver burn out, the main board need to be change? Seems like drivers are embedded into the board.

 

I resent that!

My Gecko may have had a really dumb user, but the mistake doesn't deserve to be insulted like that!

Never use a 4-pin "Molex" PC drive power connector for your steppers, where you can unknowingly force a pin backwards into the housing, causing arcing to burn the connector and said back rush to cook your driver.

The Geckos are legendarily bulletproof and I still managed to cook one o' them. You just haven't given me enough time with the BlackBox yet.

I like warranties. They make someone else pay for my mistakes.

Dumb or otherwise.


-Bats
(there are no dumb mistakes, only dumb people)

 

I agree Bats. I once built a machine, and unknowingly wired my motors up wrong because the vendor had changed motor suppliers and the color code on the motors was different. Blew all four drivers as soon as I powered it on. Expensive mistake. Learned two things from this:

Double check your wiring.
Check your wiring again.

There is no such thing as "Driver's doesn't 'burn out' on well designed boards unless you do something really dumb to it " I don't care how well the board is designed, someone will ALWAYS do something really dumb to it. Fools are ingenious...

All it takes is an improperly inserted pin, a bad crimp, loose screw, or a broken wire to smoke your driver. I always put a tie wrap around the inline motor connectors to prevent them from accidentally coming loose.

And, a $200 integrated controller board always hurts more to replace than a single independent driver.

Warranty doesn't usually cover dumb user mistakes. No Auto Parts store or electrical supplier warranties complex electrical parts because it's too easy to blow them if you don't know what you are doing.

MG

 

I bet warranty didn't cover it...

MG

 

The beer? Probably not.

-Bats
("Warranty void if cap is removed")

 

So, is it not better to keep going with androuino/CNC shield or any other solution then?
We are now aware about the driver, but what else?
What's the advantage of black box vs androuino/CNC shield?