Hi So I have a modified Lead 1010 machine (I had to make it slightly narrower). I get play in the gantry on carving leaving marks in the carve (cnc dwell) - if I push the spindle by hand I get 5-6mm movement front-to-back. As far as I can see its moving where the gantry joins the base. My guess (unless something has broken) is that changing the v-Wheels from Extreme to solid might help - a little play here would be exaggerated in the gantry movement. Anybody else had this issue? thanks, James
Changing the wheels: Delrin wheels does not flex that much - I'd start by checking V-Wheel adjustment (eccentrics). Also as you grip the endmill and wiggle it - use the tactile senses to follow the feeling of looseness to locate the source of the play.
Hi Peter thanks for the reply - I've done that, the gantry itself doesn't flex and the movement seems to be in the join to the base. I'll double check the eccentrics again, but they are tight at last check.
thanks again - fairly sure that its all tight. Is there another cause of play I should be looking at? Any common issues for the 1010?
Most common issues are assembly related (loose wheels, loose fasteners, loose leadscrew couplers, loose stop collars not tight up against the bearing) What you describe is not something we typically see on a LEAD1010 no. Dig in, something loose, something assembled incorrectly. From here it's quite hard to help you, but you, at the machine, can push and pull and wiggle and check and listen and feel to find where the "looseness" comes from. Then teardown or investigate that area.
Hi Peter/All So I've wiggled it and also measured the diameter of the V wheels. They measure at ~24mm OD, and I notice that the ones that are sold on openbuilds are spec'd at 25.23mm - are these then custom made for you and designed for your XL C Beam gantry plate? I'd assumed that they are all a stock size, but apparently not. Ooznest, whom I assumed bought your ones, spec theirs at 23.89mm or something. My C Beam is from ooznest mostly, will that also be to a standard size... hmmmm. thanks again, James
Right, so the wheel size is a red herring. The twist is coming from the Z axis (spindle) twisting against the X axis on the gantry. Is the answer to this the High-Z mod, to give another horizontal bar to the gantry, or does that just transfer the problem somewhere else? thanks.
Eccentrics properly adjusted? That's how you bring the wheels in to adjust their spacing in relation to the rail. Did you install eccentrics as the official kits use, or only used Aluminum spacers all round? Post some pics of the problematic section and we'd be happy to help you check. Doubt that - as Ooznest would have supplied our wheels. If you got it off ebay/ali we'd be more suspect of the wheels? Any non-original parts on the machine?: Where's the rest from? No, the High-Z's extra beam is to counteract the much longer lever arm of a longer Z axis that comes with the High-Z. Something specific to your machine is either adjusted incorrectly, installed incorrectly, or (depending on your answers to that question above, and which parts those might be) maybe sourced incorrectly. As mentioned before:
I re-adjusted eccentric's as best as possible. Can't get them totally tight I think as the v wheels are smaller - I ponder bigger wheels would allow more of a range of adjustment. They shouldn't be too tight though. >Did you install eccentrics as the official kits use yes. Assembled as per Mark's (excellent) build video. >Where's the rest from? rest of C beam is via an ebay seller (cnc_planet). Its all tight and correctly assembled, but the router Z mount twists on the gantry giving the movement. Will post a video tomorrow for clarity. Picture of machining marks attached thanks again. (editted)
Any chance the Plates have the hole spacing wrong? Or extrusions out of spec (slot wider than it should be, stretched too hard during extrusion process and come out undersized etc)
they are genuine openbuilds plates (via ooznest). It doesn't seem to be moving as in loose, but pushing on the router twists the axis - see attached.
Yes, I got that... but drill down deeper, what is moving. Is the wheels tight on the extrusion (all wheels?) Is the ends of the extrusion tight against the uprights (or is there play in your mounting there?) Work the problem, find the cause
This is me pushing the spindle just now. This is after checking the eccentrics earlier. Its not huge, but enough to give the dwell marks as above.
youtube link - easier - . It looks like its the spindle mount, but if you look closer the gantry is twisting too.
I'll take your word for it that the Z C-beam is moving (couldn't see that on my phone) but I'm fairly sure that the spindle is moving relative to the Z C-beam. Alex.
I converted the video format so I could zoom right in and there is clearly plenty of movement in the X axis C-beam so something needs attention around the end plates. One question regarding the end of the X axis C-beam that you shortened...did you machine the end perfectly square?
Hi Christian - thanks for looking, glad you can see it too. I was starting to wonder. The C beam was a 1000mm piece provided by ooznest and cut by them. I assume their C beam is provided by openbuilds or made to same spec. Compared to a 1010 machine, I just ordered shorter Y axis parts to make it not as deep. I've checked the gantry attachments today and its all tight - pic attached. I looked again and I can't see exactly what's moving - the C beam twists a little, its almost like the XL plate and fixings is moving. Perhaps a little movement in a few places. I am pushing with light to moderate "firm" force. I'll get a mount for the camera setup and try to get another vid. thanks.
In do notice the gaps under the corner brackets - the build video has it the way you have it too, but a tip here is to sand off the little nubs under the corner bracket on the side where they interfere with the flat face of the uprights for an even more secure fit No video, description, or anything else can help us help you diagnose that. Hold the c-beam, hold the plate, do your wiggle and using the sense of touch see if you can detect relevative movement (wiggle) or none, and if its none, where do you feel the movement come from The C-beam itself can "twist" and if you keep your cutting recipes conservative is not an issue in itself, so you have to dig in and see is something moving that shouldn't or is it just the normal "flex" in the otherwise rigid and perfectly assembled structure.
ok so I sanded off the bits on the corners - good tip. I don't get it - I can't find anything loose but still move movement than I am happy with, and even with a very bland recipe I get dwell. Any other LEAD 1010 owners have the same movement? thanks all for your help.
I don't see the beam twist as much, but I do spot two things moving and one sign of wear 1) The shadow behind the Z axis C-Beam gets larger and smaller as you wiggle - indicating the front facing V-wheels may be a little loose and allow some wiggle. I.e relative movement between the Z axis and X carriages 2) The rear wheel set looks quite loose - I can see the wheels lifting up and down quite a lot. I.e relative movement also between the X carriage and X rail. Check this video around the 30 second mark to see how to test tightness by seeing if you can just spin the wheel. Must just start to grip, not squashing the wheel but not free wheeling either. 3) Cannot clearly see but it looks like some of the wheels are quite worn - might be up for replacement. If it worn down too quick it might have been too tightly adjusted - though do feel if its worn (ridges) or maybe its just dust rings? Also something on the Z-axis beam? It looks kind of like a rough surface and that would eat up the wheels riding over it
thanks again Peter, I think the marks are just dust. I will disassemble and possibly change the wheels to see what's what. There is nothing loose as such, so its interesting what's going on...
Here's the video I re-formatted. Pause video then click on the 3 dots (bottom right) and select "Zoom to fill". Run the video from the beginning and focus on the Y plate on the far left of the screen - some movement there, It can also be seen that the router clamp is moving relative to the Y plate. So a combination of things going on here and maybe others I can't see.
How deep is your initial plunge? The reason I ask is that I have flex in mine as well if I put a lot of force by hand into it (loosening the collet), but it never shows up in my cuts. However, yesterday I was cutting large holes into 2x6 material and was using a 1/4" endmill and plunging straight in at a plunge rate of 1000mm/min and cutting at 12mm depth of cut at 2000mm/min. I am never that aggressive, but these did not need to be precise or pretty and I had a lot to do. I had the same dwell marks where the cut starts. I was using a longer endmill so I figure it and the gantry had some flex due to the aggressive cutting forces. Usually, on harder materials I will ramp in. In fact I think I ramp in on most tool paths.
@Giarc please review Play in the Z Axis / dwell - Lead1010 first - its not flex, we are all seeing some looseness - would like your opinion too - but rest assured its not normal deflection if you watch the video closely
