Hi All, Im getting this random re-occuring lag between my Openbuilds application interface and CNC Operation. When my workpiece is started everything seems to be running fine and then slowly the progress shown on the Openbuilds application slows down in relation to actual cutting on CNC, sometimes the job has finished but the Openbuilds application shows it still running for upwards of 3-5 mins afterwards. This is preventing me from operation the machine until the software catches up. Sometimes it will happen on a 10min job, other times A 1hr job runs perfect. Running MacBook Pro i7, 16gb ram, Mac OS Catalina, Openbuilds Blackbox, Openbuild Control 1.0.303 I do use both Carbide Create and Fusion 360 to generate my code depending on complexity of workpiece. Any ideas? Regards Chris
does the same job run slow everytime? if so, you should turn on smoothing in fusion so it generates fewer lines of Gcode
Hey Peter. For what its worth, I had the same thing happen after the latest update (update and ran job, no reboot). I had to click pause and stop even though the job had physically completed. I rebooted and ran another 2 hour job without an issue. Its the first and only time something like that has ever happened. I'm running an up-to-date win10 box.
Hi, I was running small coaster jobs the Grbl posted from Carbide yesterday, don't have that option to smooth. These jobs were 5min runs and machine was so laggy at end I had to reboot just to get back control!. Im seeing this on probably 50% of jobs now and have to agree with @sharmstr and his comments. My cnc was back at zero'd position and Openbuilds was still showing job as running tool paths, in some cases 5+ mins delay/lag Regards Chris
Is there a requirement when upgrading to Openbuild Control 1.0.303, to upgrade your blackbox firmware?
Releases · OpenBuilds/OpenBuilds-CONTROL > If you do have the time, working back to an older version one at a time, see if you can find when the issue started for you? Would make bisecting a little easier. 1.0.303 only edited the Macros to be copied for Interface, so nothing related changed in 1.0.303, must be older
For me, I've been running all day with no issues. It was just that one time so can probably ignore me
I've only had CNC for a month, I downloaded the previous version from the website, then upgraded to current version when I has issue with Mobile Jog Widget, so could of had issues on previous version, I took deliver of it 14th April and downloaded software a couple of days before that in readiness, so whatever version was on website then, just looked and can't see the version control release dates on site, but checked my downloads and found it, from 9th Apr v1.0.298 and I now running .300. I guess I'll have to try identify if its specific to a application, I only use two, Carbide Create & Fusion 360, so will try narrow down. I'll have a play to see if can replicate, once I have I'll upgrade to latest. Is there a subscribe to software updates, as I appear to have missed the last 3? I'm a total noob, and learning fast so sorry if I'm posting stuff that's already out there somewhere, I do try searching but its all down to way I describe the issue in my mind versus somebody else!! cheers Peter,
Thanks, and as mentioned, download older versions of CONTROL too (link in post above) - snooze the updates, and see if that version works, or same, then go back one older once more, until you find a version that does not. If it was a recently introduced bug, you should get to a version that does not have a bug yet
@Peter Van Der Walt Hi Peter, By way of an update, I've been testing this on multiple jobs over last few months and I've continued to apply updates as well and this "random" (not every job) lag continues on simple and complex jobs created both in Fusion 360 & Carbide, the Fusion variants being complex with smoothing turned on and off and still the same. I recently had a Blackbox failure for which I'm waiting a replacement. During my diagnosis I read that you shouldn't use a USB extension and connect directly to BB with a short high speed cable, I have a good quality short high speed cable however my machine does have a built-in USB extension running from BB which is housed under the HDPE spoil board bed which is hard to access to a more accessible side mounted option. I wasn't aware of USB extensions not being recommended for use and only stumbled across it after my latest issue. For info I purchased my Openbuilds style machine pre-built, as opposed to building myself. I assume the gcode sits and is read from the computer rather than being sent directly to BB and running locally, so this would possibly indicate that BB is sending info back to Openbuilds interface what code it has run and the interface then posts the progress by way of motion on screen, so possibly bi-directional delay in send and receive?? I now wonder if this random lag is caused by this USB extension?? I will off course test this once I receive my replacement BB and will update this thread as to the results.
could easily be the extension, they tend to be 'for charging fones' quality while being advertised as 'high speed' or similar. in all types of high speed communication, 'short cable = better, even of the cable itself is not so good', and extra sockets can be special cases, and of course an extension introduces an extra socket/plug pair. can also be Windows updates, Google Drive, Onecloud or one of the many things that autoupdate in the background that might hog the processor for long enough to be a visible lag. I doubt it is the Blackbox itself. I cant recall if you posted some sample Gcode? if so point me at it, else post it and I will run it through my machine and see if I can spot any delays.
Hiya David, Thanks for the message and info. I'm running MAC as original post, but with auto-updates turned off, but will download in background and but not apply them until I authorise. Schoolboy error on my part with which gcodes are affected, I will try to remember to see them as and when I get my replacement BB up and running. I totally agree with your comment on extensions, it also introduces another point of failure another connection that can as I call it "go dry" requiring re-seating to re-establish the connection is some cases. I'm interested to see if it continues once I get a brand new BB, if the problem goes away then my old unit could have been the problem, if it continues then removing the extension USB will be a definite move, as I'd like to prove the USB causes it (poor design on CNC designers part? and will feedback either way as per your BB recommendations) Also attached is spec of MacBook USB A Up to 480 Mb/s, maybe my machine is getting a bit too old??
Communication protocol explained here: Grbl v1.1 Interface · gnea/grbl Wiki Standard USB 2.0 as expected. Grbl runs at 115200 baud over that usb link using VCP
@Peter Van Der Walt @David the swarfer Hi Guys, I'm still suffering from the same lagging issue and have today changed the $10 to =2 for the buffer, on initial testing it appears to be better but further testing will be done, with the buffer does it significantly improve the chatter between blackbox and computer, what's the size of the buffer, can it be changed? Regards Chris
1) Try a different computer 2) Make sure all drivers and applications are up to date 3) Make sure your GCODE is optimised Grbl default buffers works fine for everyone else $10 is a report format setting (what gets reported), not a buffer setting and should be default $10=1 for CONTROL. Learn more here Grbl v1.1 Configuration · gnea/grbl Wiki
Hi Peter, ok, I’ve misread how that’s $10 works then, I’ll put it back control is latest version but not sure about Blackbox firmware, so will check is there a recommended gcode optimiser, most of my gcode is generated by carbide pro, so do I still need to optimise?
if Carbide has a 'smoothing' option, turn it on. Set the limit to 2x your machines step size. So my OX has a step size of 0.025mm, I set smoothing to 0.05mm (sometimes bigger, but never less). This means that every vertice is within a step or 2 of exactly where it should be. Ordering the machine to go to 0.001mm resolution is pointless as the steps are bigger than that. (note that this does not mean you can reduce the decimal precision, if you do you will get arc errors) as background info on what we are trying to achieve
Hi David, Thanks, how do I work out my step size? I have an open builds blackbox obviously but my machine is a custom build with Longs Stepper motors. Also how do I check I have the correct firmware, I'm using openbuilds control v1.0.312 Regards Chris
1 / stepspermm = mm per step steps per mm are your $100 $101 $101 settings in GRBL, visible in the 'GRBL settings' tab of OpenBuildsCONTROL. Usually around 40 for belt systems, and around 200 for leadscrew systems. In the Serial Console tab you can see the reported GRBL version just after startup, looks like this [14:16:31] [ connect ] Firmware Detected: grbl version 1.1g on COM4 and your Blackbox was supplied with the correct version so as Peter says, don't worry about it.
Hi Peter, I think I'm narrowing down my hunt, I've seen this multiple times as per attached image. Whats really weird, if start a job it runs, at the bottom of the image you can see the code running but its in red?? Regards Chris
Red doesn't always mean something is wrong lol! Its just a color chosen to show "the response on the right relates to the command sent on the left" Please stop the theories like firmware and colors of the log etc being related to the issue We've given you the answers above already. Not guesses, answers. It's either a problem with that computer, or very unoptimal GCODE. Do the test with some Fusion G-code, if that doesn't solve it, try a different computer. If you try Fusion with our post and Smoothing turned on correctly it will all be fine. You seem to have files with fine details, nothing wrong with graduating to a more professional CAM workflow to deal more optimally with the fine details - the Free/beginner orientated CAMs (even cam.openbuilds.com) cannot do as much as the more professional ones can, when it comes to making things smooth and optimised.
Thanks very much, so I have leadscrews, set at 200.3 X & Y, and 199.8 on Z and it doesn't look like Carbide Pro has smoothing. I'm going to try Mac OS 10.14 Mojave next with a signed FTDI device as apposed to what I'm running now which is 10.15 Catalina which does have a signed driver but a beta version only, may that will narrow it down Regards Chris
Hi Peter, Thank you very much for yours and @David the swarfer time in answering and trying to help me through this. Even after 1 year of CNC I'm still learning the more detail config stuff. I have and use Fusion, so will definitely try some code from those job I have set up, I will also implement the smoothing as recommended. I also have a 2nd laptop with the earlier OS, so it's no problem to eliminate . One final question, using 1 / stepspermm = mm per step - I have (200.300 on $100 & $101) 1/200.3=0.0049, so rounded unto 0.005, then double as per Davids comment, I should use 0.01 for smoothing. My blackbox config is $12=0.002 ; Arc tolerance, millimeters, should this value be 0.01? Regards Chris
Never ever change these advanced settings from the default! They are perfectly tuned by default. Should be $11=0.010 Junction deviation, mm $12=0.002 Arc tolerance, mm
