Welcome to Our Community

Some features disabled for guests. Register Today.

Upgraded 3018 Pro using MGN15H Linear Rails and a 500w Spindle

Discussion in 'CNC Mills/Routers' started by dJOS_500, Jul 17, 2022.

  1. Loggy

    Loggy Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2023
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    19
    Nice robot. I'm still waiting for the printer I have access to to be repaired.
    If I get desperate maybe I'll employ you and yours ;) Your missus might be happy to see it earn some bucks lol..
     
    dJOS_500 likes this.
  2. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    hehe, I do occasionally print things for ppl. Luckily I have no idea how much money I've spent on my 3D printers and CNC machine - so therefore neither does my wife. :ROFL:
     
    Loggy likes this.
  3. Loggy

    Loggy Well-Known
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2023
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    19
    Yeah, maybe I need to be more vague about how much I've blown as well hehe
     
    dJOS_500 likes this.
  4. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I made a little more progress on my CNC machine today. First up I replaced the almost useless wifi antenna with a 6 dBi unit with works really well.

    IMG_9631.jpeg

    And I made myself an aluminum soldering jig so I don’t ruin anymore mini XLR jacks when soldering on the wires. These things are just so small and fiddly to work with that I think a jig is mandatory to wick away excess heat and get the pins from melting their way out of the plastic bung.

    I do need to buy some more cable to finish the limit switches, but I’ll do that next year when I return from our regular Adelaide family vacation.

    IMG_9634.jpeg IMG_9635.jpeg IMG_9636.jpeg
     
    #124 dJOS_500, Dec 17, 2023
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2023
    Loggy and David the swarfer like this.
  5. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Btw, if anyone else wants to replace their wifi antenna on a DLC32. You just need an RP-SMA to PCI U.FL cable and antenna kit. They are cheap from Amazon. You just need to make sure you get the correct size. The “M2 U.FL” connectors are too small.

    IMG_9583.jpeg
     
    Loggy likes this.
  6. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Since the rebuild, I’ve been struggling to calibrate my CNC motion to be accurate. It finally dawned on me that the leadscrews that came with the printer and extension kit are crap and have a thread pitch of 8mm.

    So I’ve ordered some good quality X and Y leadscrews with a pitch of 2 mm and 4 starts. I’ve also ordered some anti backlash leadscrew nut blocks of the type that RatRig use on their lower spec CNC machine.

    I also plan to install some retention collars and axial thrust bearings to keep the leadscrews from moving around. This will also allow me to switch from rigid stepper motor couplers to flexible couplers. I’m going to 3D print a pair of 40mm tall Nema 17 mounting blocks from ASA to accommodate the changes.
     
    David the swarfer likes this.
  7. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    532
    Pitch of 2 and 4 starts.. that's an 8mm lead also
     
    dJOS_500 and Peter Van Der Walt like this.
  8. Peter Van Der Walt

    Peter Van Der Walt OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2017
    Messages:
    15,046
    Likes Received:
    4,313
    Ie the same as all the awesome OpenBuilds machines :)

    4 starts * 2mm pitch = TR8*2 = another 8mm pitch screw. Replaced with the same :)

    Leadscrews and their pitch are almost impossible to relate to that symptom. Mechanical (ie forgot to tighten something or tightened something so much it binds or some "upgrade" was a downgrade) or incorrect Max Rate / acceleration settings are far more likely candidates
     
    dJOS_500 likes this.
  9. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
  10. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I realised I have some old 2mm pitch lead screws in my spares box (from my 3D printer experiments), and comparing those to the ones on my CNC does show a noticeable difference. Admittedly I don't know the other specs of this 2mm pitch lead screw (top lead screw).

    IMG_9746.jpeg
     
  11. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I finished the first prototype Nema 17 Mount design today, and I'm just in the process of printing one out for testing. The design integrates an Axial thrust bearing, and I'm hoping this will work well with a lock collar at the other end also supported by an AT bearing.

    Screenshot 2024-01-08 at 3.53.52 pm.png
    Screenshot 2024-01-08 at 3.54.31 pm.png Screenshot 2024-01-08 at 3.54.21 pm.png
     
  12. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Testing looks good. I only needed to make a minor change to the holes for the M3 bolts as they were too snug. But everything else fit perfectly.

    IMG_9751.jpeg IMG_9753.jpeg

    EDIT: Design is now available on Printables:

    Printables
     
    #132 dJOS_500, Jan 8, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2024
  13. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    My ASA prints came out great - ignore the surface “zits”, I intentionally used random seams to avoid any concentricity issues.

    IMG_9757.jpeg IMG_9759.jpeg IMG_9760.jpeg
     
    David the swarfer likes this.
  14. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    My new lead screws and nuts arrived today - the ones that came in the cheap Chinese kits I started out with are definitely different. I don't know much about leadscrews, but the new ones look much better quality and the old one appears to have less "Starts" or "threads"? (top 2 = new ones)

    IMG_9777.jpeg

    Regarding the Anti backlash nuts - I bought the common twin brass nut + spring versions, and the Nylon block with adjustable AB grub screw. Anyhoo, Im curious as to what folks think are the best option here?

    My only concern re the Nylon block, is how long it'll last?

    IMG_9778.jpeg

    edit: I stumbled across this design today, after some googling, I wonder if they are worth the cost? They’d certainly be easier for me to integrate with my current design.

    ACME / TR8x8(P2) Anti-Backlash Nut (Type 2) - Maker Store PTY LTD

    IMG_9780.jpeg
    IMG_9779.jpeg
     
    #134 dJOS_500, Jan 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2024
  15. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    After getting some advice on anti-backlash nuts/blocks, I printed out some mounting blocks, I designed, for the AB Blocks to replace the spring types that came with my machine. I used ASA which is very strong and durable.

    Screenshot 2024-01-11 at 11.08.08 am.png

    Install went smoothly, although, I am yet to reinstall my lead screws and stepper motors as Im waiting on some longer stepper motor mounting bolts to arrive. I did partially insert my lead screws to confirm everything aligned properly, and thankfully it all looked good.

    IMG_9784.jpeg IMG_9783.jpeg
     
  16. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    532
    Good choice, the spring loaded ant-backlash isn't suitable for cnc. Any reason you are sticking with nema17?
     
    dJOS_500 likes this.
  17. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Mainly I’m not quite at the stage where I can justify the costs of upgrading to Nema 23 motors + appropriate drivers.

    My existing Nema 17’s are beefy 48mm tall, 2.5 amp rated LDO 42STH48-2504AH units. I’m sending the full 2 amps per phase my drivers can supply - for such a small machine (300x300mm actual work area) 55N-cm Holding Torque seems to be more than enough. Plus these motors are rated for high temp’s so aren’t going to fail on me anytime soon.

    If I ever get around to finishing my flying gantry design, I’ll allow for both Nema 17 and 23’s to be installed so I have an upgrade path.
     
    Gary Caruso likes this.
  18. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I found some time to work on my CNC machine today. I’m still waiting on 60mm bolts to install the steppers, but in the mean time, I’ve changed the wiring on them to use my shielded cables for most of the run.

    I also added some gel style glue to the wires to absorb vibrations and improve durability.
    IMG_9824.jpeg IMG_9825.jpeg
    And I finally got around to making my emergency stop switch.
    IMG_9822.jpeg IMG_9823.jpeg

    I also discovered that one of my limit switches was broken and I didn't have a spare ... so I decided to buy some 5v optical limit switches from Maker Store. As my control board doesn't support the 12-24v inductive limit switches I bought a while back, this saves me the hassle of designing and building a PCB with optocouplers to get around the voltage issue. Hopefully optical limit switches be just as reliable, if not more so.

    [​IMG]
     
    David the swarfer likes this.
  19. Gary Caruso

    Gary Caruso OpenBuilds Volunteer
    Staff Member Moderator Builder

    Joined:
    May 19, 2016
    Messages:
    1,193
    Likes Received:
    532
    Optical should work fine as long as you keep them clean, I deal with them everyday in my day job, they don't like dust.
    Gary
     
  20. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Hmmm, that's a good point - my garage gets quite dusty so I think I might cancel that order and stick to switches.

    On a positive note, my longer bolts arrived, and I was able to install my Stepper motors - I also attempted to install my lead screws, but found my anti-backlash block mounts were too tall / short by 1mm respectively. luckily, that is an easy fix.

    IMG_9835.jpeg IMG_9836.jpeg

    EDIT: Thankfully, Maker Store have awesome service, and I was able to change out my order of Optical end-stops to Switch end-stops of the type I’m already using.
     
    #140 dJOS_500, Jan 14, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2024
  21. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    The 1mm height change worked perfectly! I did a quick test fit of both axes and have now properly installed the Y axis with bearings and lock collar.

    20240115 223940354002.png 20240115 223831699617.png 20240115 223742584084.png

    I was about to install the X axis when my lovely wife requested an audience to discuss the latest developments from the dreaded mother in-law (her mum is a PITA). :mad:
     
    #141 dJOS_500, Jan 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2024
    Michele02-1 likes this.
  22. Michele02-1

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2024
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    hi, thanks to your project documentation which I saw today for the first time you convinced me to buy a used 3018 (modified to 3036 and with 500W spindle). Your fault. Jokes aside, I have several questions to ask you.


    1) First of all, how can I recognize if my Nema 17 can support the upgrade to 2A like yours? Since I'm ordering the DLC32 + TS35 complete with 4988 drivers but I'm not sure.


    2) For the linear guides upgrade on all axis, I intend to order as follows:

    4 x MGN15H Blocks

    2 x MGN15H Rail (400mm)

    2 x MGN15H Rail (300mm)

    2 x alluminium extrusions (2020, 400mm)

    1 x GX80 Double Line Rail Ball Screw Precision Linear Guide (100mm)

    1 x T8 Antibacklash Nut Block


    Am I ordering the correct items? (don't think about measurements, I will double check everything before ordering)


    Can I also use antibacklash nuts on the X axis? Does this make sense?


    3) I will probably rewire everything, but without changing connectors: which cables do you recommend for the various components, considering that I will also use the chains?

    Thanks for all this documentation.
     

    Attached Files:

    dJOS_500 likes this.
  23. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    Cool! Welcome to the CNC club, it’s a fun hobby!

    I’d be 99% sure that they can’t support 2 amps. I had to buy high end LDO Nema 17’s (same ones I use on my 3D printer). Id have preferred to go straight to Nema 23’s, but my chassis doesn’t support them.
     
    #143 dJOS_500, Jan 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2024
  24. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    That all looks pretty good, except I think you are short 2 MGN15H Blocks, the X axis needs 2 and the Y axis needs 4.

    the only item I don’t recognise is the “GX80 Double Line Rail Ball Screw”?
     
  25. Michele02-1

    Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2024
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    2
    dJOS_500 likes this.
  26. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I’m using an anti backlash block on both the X and Y axis. My Z axis doesn’t need one as I’m using a ball screw system for that axis.

    for the cable chains, it’s best to use stranded wire inside silicone sheathing. I found the best option was 4 core, shielded microphone cable. It’s really affordable and very durable. It’s also really nice to work with.

    This is were I got mine in Australia (modern equivalent of Radio Shack):
    https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-core-sc...-cable-sold-per-metre-sold-per-metre/p/WB1540

    No worries, I’m glad you’ve found it helpful. I’ve documented my journey for a few reasons, A/ it’s fun, B/ other might want to try similar upgrades, and C/ so I can recall what I’ve done.

    My various models and designs are stored here in printables. I do try to keep them up to date and mostly succeed.

    Printables
     
    Michele02-1 likes this.
  27. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
  28. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    FYI: I took a closer look at that and the only thing you’ll need to change is the stepper motor coupler. It comes with a cheap rigid coupler, but you’ll need a good flexible coupler or you’ll have binding issues which will damage the motor and guide bearings.

    just avoid the simple looking spring type like this, they will introduce backlash.

    Flexible Coupling 5x8x25mm - 3D Print Creativity
     
    Michele02-1 likes this.
  29. dJOS_500

    dJOS_500 Journeyman
    Builder

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2022
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    130
    I finally finished putting the X axis back together - the lead screw was way too long, so I cut it to size with my angle grinder and the re-ground the end back to
    spec on my bench grinder.

    IMG_9854.jpeg IMG_9856.jpeg

    Now I just need to finish the X and Y limit switch wiring.

    IMG_9855.jpeg
     
    Michele02-1 likes this.
  30. Giarc

    Giarc OpenBuilds Team
    Staff Member Moderator Builder Resident Builder

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2015
    Messages:
    3,013
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    You should grind a flat where the set screw from the shaft coupler touches. I have done that on all my machines and have never had one slip.
     
    dJOS_500 likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice